"What embitters the world is not excess of criticism, but an absence of self-criticism." - G.K. Chesterton

Monday, April 28, 2008

John Polkinghorne - "Faith, Science & Understanding" Chapter 1

I figured that since I haven't had time for any of my own writings these days I'd conduct a little experiment. Just two days ago I added the 18th book to my "in progress" list. (I know, I really must stop doing that.) Anyway, I've decided to try my hand a journaling on each chapter. It seems like such a practice could go a long way towards something resembling retention. Then I thought to myself, "what better way to keep myself from lazy journaling than submitting it for public review!" Now if my "in progress" list is any indication, I can't guarantee that I'll remained disciplined in this new venture. Even so, I figured it was worth a shot. That said...

Chapter 1 - Theology in the University
In chapter 1 Polkinghorne makes two basic arguments. First he argues for the rightful place of theology in the university. Secondly he argues for a second-order role of theology as theological metaphysics. Theological metaphysics, in Polkinghorne's opinion, is the only place one might expect to come to a "theory of everything." Such a theory would be far more "…all encompassing and intellectually satisfying than any Grand Unified Theory of particle physics could ever be." (25)

Polkinghorne's argument for theology's rightful place in the university begins with two assertions. First, there is the value of knowledge for its own sake, and secondly, he holds to the fundamental unity of all knowledge. From these two assertions his argument proceeds: 1. The University's primary focus ought to be the pursuit of knowledge for the sake of knowledge. He feels that those who view the university as a means of pragmatically serving the human race are mistaking a desirable outcome for the purpose itself. 2. There is an essential unity to all knowledge. Therefore, any particular bit of knowledge ought to meaningfully connect with the universal complex of knowledge in general. 3. Religious experience is ubiquitous throughout humanity, which leads to his conclusion: The study of theology as an area of human knowledge deserves a rightful place at the table of scholarship.

Polkinghorne then argues for a second-order application of theology, for to speak of God is to speak of the one from whom the whole of reality flows and thus ought rightfully envelop the whole of human knowledge and understanding. He goes on to argue that when faced with the layered nature of reality, it is irresponsible to let one level swallow up the other. To do so is to commit what A.N. Whitehead calls "the fallacy of misplaced concreteness." (11) Such an approach does not do justice to the whole of our lived experience.

An example of just such a move is witnessed when one comes to grips with what the cosmologists claim regarding the inevitable end to which our universe is progressing. The Universe is winding down to either collapse or chaos. If we let this physical reality swallow up the meaning experienced in love, joy and morality we are forced into either complete despair, or a sort of "heroic atheism." (25) Instead, Polkinghorne argues that the physical reality considered here ought not swallow up the rest of our human experience. Rather, since all knowledge is one, a more satisfying conclusion is available to us. We do not experience life as strictly physical realities. There is love, there is reason, there is beauty, there is morality, there is personality. Taken together, these attributes point towards a reality that is not reducible to mere particle physics, or the second law of thermodynamics. With Polkinghorne, I would agree that a personal God is a more satisfying explanation for the whole of human experience and knowledge than the sort of impersonal power that Hume, Russell and others argue for.

Quote to ponder: "[We must] refrain from reaching easy but worthless conclusions by exalting the objective over the subjective, the repeatable over the unique, the impersonal over the personal." (24)

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48 Comments:

Blogger Matt M said...

Hmmm, I'm tempted to try this with some of the books I'm reading... but I doubt I have the discipline. So I'll limit myself (for now) to commenting on yours. :-)

First he argues for the rightful place of theology in the university.

What exactly does "rightful place" mean? If he's arguing that universities should have the right to teach theology then is there anyone who thinks differently? If he's arguing that universities should be made to teach theology then isn't that elevating theologians to arbiters of what should and shouldn't be taught?

Or is he just arguing that it would be good if universities taught theology?

I'm assuming it's the third option - but you could make this clearer.

1. The University's primary focus ought to be the pursuit of knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

I'm not sure that this is a defensible position. Knowing how many pebbles there are on all the beaches in the UK is knowledge - but I doubt Polkinghorne believes that anyone should devote their life to discovering it. Knowing what happens if you spend four hours of everyday singing "U can't touch this" by MC Hammer is knowledge - but again I doubt he'd argue for university courses on the subject.

The amount of information in the universe far outstrips our ability to take it all in - so some form of pragmatic distinction between useful and useless knowledge has to be applied.

Besides, a logical conclusion of such an attitude seems to be that we should praise an individual studying medicine purely for the sake of knowing medicine more so than an individual studying it purely to help people.

With Polkinghorne, I would agree that a personal God is a more satisfying explanation for the whole of human experience and knowledge than the sort of impersonal power that Hume, Russell and others argue for.

Does this mean that you think the 'god hypothesis' better fits the facts or simply that you like it better than the alternatives?

11:34 AM

 
Blogger DSK Samways said...

I'm still mystified as to how theologians can make sweeping statements as to the limitations of matter and energy when science has yet to reveal to us those limitations.

Matter an energy cannot give rise to love? According to whom and what evidence?

11:29 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Matt,
Glad to provide the opportunity, though I fear I'm going to find myself lacking the discipline as well. I'll try and hang with it though. Journaling combined with a bit of conversation would seem to be a great combination... IF one can find the time!

You bring up a number of good points here. Some of which I pondered myself as I was reading through the chapter.

What exactly does "rightful place" mean?...

I believe what he is reacting against is those who would argue that theology does not belong in the university because "it's all make believe" etc... Polkinghorne is convinced of the value of knowledge for the sake of understanding.* (I know he says "for the sake of knowledge," but I get the feeling he means something more like the foregoing.) From this he argues that we should be just as concerned (if not more so) about asking questions of the creator as we are about the creation. Now one caveat here would be that such a department ought to be open to all variety of perspectives, including atheism. I personally agree whole heartedly with him on this point.

Knowing what happens if you spend four hours of everyday singing "U can't touch this" by MC Hammer is knowledge - but again I doubt he'd argue for university courses on the subject.

I addressed this above, but I just wanted to say thank you for that delightful image. :P

Does this mean that you think the 'god hypothesis' better fits the facts or simply that you like it better than the alternatives?

Both.

*By understanding I mean the striving towards the ideal of ultimate conclusions. Truth with a capital "T". Physicists and Theologians are weird like that. ;-)

Incit,
I'm not so sure Polkinghorne is arguing that. Rather, he seems to be advancing a more modest position that would simply ask, given the reality of our experience of love, beauty, joy etc... and also noting the importance we attach to these experiences what (if anything) does this say about the whole of reality?

8:03 PM

 
Blogger DSK Samways said...

Isn't the old fella sorta conflating philosophy with theology?

It seems to me that the arguments you have summarised are more appropriate for putting philosophy into universities. But that form of knowledge exploration is already in place, so arguing for it seems a little redundant.

If we're talking theology rather than philosophy, the main reason it tends to be sidelined in secular institutes is simply because a presuppositional approach is an absolute requirement for its study. It can only really be implemented well in institutes that already embrace the central tenets of that theology (there is a God, and He is this particular God and not this or that one, and from this position we can say...).

The alternative is to attempt to implement a trans-faith theological discussion, but those are doomed to fail precisely because each participant can only enter the theological debate with their own personal set of presuppositions rock steady and intact. Can a Christian really gain anything from a theological discussion with a Jew and an Arab over the divinity of Christ?

Clearly, knowledge is key and seeking, if not necessarily finding, Truth is a central aim of any academic institute. I just don't see how this fits in with theology. Theology is not about "The Truth", but a subjective form of "truth" that can only operate for the adherents who hold it to be "The Truth".

I do, however agree wholeheartedly that there needs to be some serious theological discussion. It's been my opinion for a while that all this madness about evolution and creationism is not so much a problem of science conflicting with faith (Augustine did much to settle that matter, if only all churches insisted their congregations read something other than the Bible from time to time), but a conflict between many insubstantially educated Christians and the theology of their own religious institutions.

On that note, the idea that a Bible and some pithy talking points regarding "the saved" is a more than adequate substitute for any reasoned moral framework is the closest thing that modern day religion has come to deserving Hitchens bitter accusation that it is in fact "poison". An accusation that, on most other aspects of religion, I completely disagree with.

8:38 AM

 
Blogger Timmo said...

Alex,

This is an interesting way to keep notes on your reading, and to bounce ideas about what you've read with other people. I will certainly follow along!

What does Polkinghorne mean by the "rightful place" of theology at the university? Certainly theology is worth studying seriously, and can contribute to our understanding of ourselves and the world in which we live. Is that really in question?

Why does Polkinghorne think there is an "essential unity" to human knowledge? I do not see any reason to think we can synthesize all of human knowledge into a comprehensive world-picture, even if that synthesis is lead by the guiding hand of theological reflection. It sounds like Polkinghorne wants to look at the universe from God's vantage point and take in the whole scene at once. I am certain that the view is spectacular; however, as a creature that lives on the ground, I am content to leave that majestic sight to the angels.

8:03 PM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Timmo,
"Is that really in question?"

Apparently he thinks it is. Though, he doesn't elaborate on what he's reacting against. I wouldn't be surprised to discover it's something like the view expressed by Incit above.

"Why does Polkinghorne think there is an "essential unity" to human knowledge?

He does not argue this; he asserts it. From this first principle he bases further argumentation, but the assertion itself is not argued.

"I do not see any reason to think we can synthesize all of human knowledge into a comprehensive world-picture"

This is different than the conviction that such a unity exists. Our ability to synthesize all knowledge and the conviction that all knowledge is in principle able to be united are different matters. I'm not so sure he's calling for the construction of a sort of intellectual tower of Babel, but rather he's reacting against some of his former colleagues who have taken to referring to the GUT theory as "the theory of everything." His point is that getting some handle on the realities of quantum mechanics most decidedly does not equate a theory of everything.

9:16 PM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Incit,
"If we're talking theology rather than philosophy, the main reason it tends to be sidelined in secular institutes is simply because a presuppositional approach is an absolute requirement for its study."

This is a strong point. Though I wonder if there would be a difference between theological study and "religious education." The former doesn't seem as unwaveringly committed to presuppositional approaches—at least not any more than any other discipline.

"Can a Christian really gain anything from a theological discussion with a Jew and an Arab over the divinity of Christ?"

Why couldn't they?

"Theology is not about "The Truth", but a subjective form of "truth" that can only operate for the adherents who hold it to be "The Truth"."

There is a level at which I agree with you here. However the knife cuts both ways, thus making any dogmatic truth claims vulnerable. On it's better days theology is not as dogmatic as many think. Perhaps thats one of the reasons folks in the church start to get nervous about "theological education." "You'll lose your faith!" they say. Of course "faith" is here being used in the sense that Dawkins gets so riled about.

9:30 PM

 
Blogger Linda said...

Alex,

Great post. (Although my brain cramps every time I visit your blog - but I got the jist. lol)

I would agree that a personal God is a more satisfying explanation for the whole of human experience and knowledge than the sort of impersonal power that Hume, Russell and others argue for.

:-) :-) :-)

6:42 AM

 
Blogger Rev. Dr. Incitatus said...

"Though I wonder if there would be a difference between theological study and "religious education."

In public high schools, do you guys get the equivalent to what we call "Religious Studies" (RS) on your syllabus?

"- Can a Christian really gain anything from a theological discussion with a Jew and an Arab over the divinity of Christ?"

- Why couldn't they?


Badly worded. I meant to say in so much as any of these players would go into the conversation prepared to have certain fundamental principles of their faith challenged, with the distinct possibility that there mind might be changed. Clearly, the Christian could "gain" insight into the views of the others, and vice versa, but is either group going to be prepared to give ground on their core beliefs?

"On it's better days theology is not as dogmatic as many think.

You're right, it doesn't have to be that dogmatic, and it's considerably more interesting when it isn't. Better still, it should push aside dogma completely. For the discussion to be all-encompassing and attract all sorts to the table (rather than simply be an act of preaching to the choir), I think everything should be on the table. The whole shebang, as it were. i.e. every single doctrine, regardless of whether certain establishments have ruled that these certain issues have been settled for eternity. All revelations must be up for discussion. And by that, I don't mean that they must stand the test of reason, because that would be a ridiculous. Revelation is miracle, miracles are transcendent to reason, therefore reason cannot be appealed to to refute a miracle. The challenges would be made purely on a theological basis. And I think there are issues upon which such challenges can be laid down.

I think it would be interesting to implement some theological discussion on this blog, in parallel the general discussion of theistic vs atheistic moral frameworks. For example, a discussion about the theological grounds underlying the authority of past decisions on doctrine; is an appeal to divine inspiration by the participants sufficient to render the issue settled and indisputable &c?

I don't know, but those sorts of discussions might be more relevant to your classes, as well as challenging the materialists here with molding their minds around making arguments appealing to theology rather than reason alone!


ps Sheesh, some of those word verifications are just downright abstract!

9:53 AM

 
Blogger Linda said...

In public high schools, do you guys get the equivalent to what we call "Religious Studies" (RS) on your syllabus?

In Virginia, yes. My 13-year-old son was recently tested on his New Testament knowledge. Before that, he learned about Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism. He is currently working on his Islamic art project. I was somewhat surprised at the thoroughness of the lessons. I think this is a fairly new curriculum.

12:49 PM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

I think it was 'Religious Education' at primary school that started me on the long path to atheism - realising that different people believed different things about the universe got me thinking about why I believed what I believed.

I think it would be interesting to implement some theological discussion on this blog

Lead the way. :-)

7:52 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Linda,
Glad you still enjoy stopping in from time to time!

Incit,
"In public high schools, do you guys get the equivalent to what we call "Religious Studies" (RS) on your syllabus?"

Yes there is such things as religious studies. However, I think what Polkinghorne is recommending allows for a more critical evaluation. RS does not so much concern itself with religious systems as the truth claims, thus it takes on a bit more of an anthropological cast. Though there is certainly a place for such study, theology is much more concerned with religion as accounts of reality, thus allowing room for a critical eye. In the same way that RS tends anthropologic, theology tends philosophic.

"is either group going to be prepared to give ground on their core beliefs?"

If they are not, then they aren't doing honest theology.

"The whole shebang, as it were. i.e. every single doctrine, regardless of whether certain establishments have ruled that these certain issues have been settled for eternity. All revelations must be up for discussion."

I gather from some of your writings that you may have done some reading in theology. From that, I would want to ask, what makes you think this isn't the case? I mean crimany, pick up any systematic theology textbook and you'll see it's littered with numerous theologians on every single doctrine who radically revise and question what might now be considered orthodoxy. The very nature of systematic theology fits very much in line with what Polkinghorne is describing the "second order" function of theology. In this capacity theology is constantly in dialog with all areas of human knowledge always being willing to make adjustments or rethink doctrines where necessary.

I don't know, but those sorts of discussions might be more relevant to your classes, as well as challenging the materialists here with molding their minds around making arguments appealing to theology rather than reason alone!

I have has something in the works for months that I haven't gotten around to finishing which I think might fit into the category of what you are suggesting. I'll see if I can't finish it off after this quarter ends. However, I also might want to challenge the dichotomy you present between "theology and reason." I'm not so sure such a thing exists.

True, as you say above, revelation is a "miracle," but I'm not so sure revelation is so much a "thing" as it is a condition. In Christian theology revelation is something that the Sprit works in a person. It doesn't necessarily have content. Rather, it is the way the existing content is applied, or "revealed."

In this way it's not as if some argue with revealed theology and some argue with reason. Rather, both argue with reason, but what is considered reasonable will not be the same for all parties.

8:44 PM

 
Blogger revvvvvvvd said...

I just stopped by to announce the (probably temporary) end to my disappearance from the blogosphere. I've been away figuring out what I believe (about all sorts of things), and now I have a handful of convenient (but vague) theological and philosophical labels. I think I shall have a new blog to explore and defend these positions. Ah, the solution of all life's problems.

Anyway, it seems like Polkinghorne here begs the question, assuming the truth of the Christian religion (or theism more generally). The conclusion that ought to follow from the argument that knowledge about religion should be pursued (because religion is important to lots of people) is that "Religious Studies" departments have a rightful place in the University.

I find this sort of debate (i.e., Should X be studied in universities?) a little amusing. Most research programmes (in the Lakatosian sense) have assumptions that many people don't accept. Most taxpayers don't give a rodent's tush about most of the things we spend their money on in universities. Most research is practically irrelevant (at least in the short term). The moment we begin to ask whether X should be studied in university...well, I'll be out of a job. Heh.

12:23 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

Surely theology is the rational examination of religious belief? At least, that's how I've always thought of it.

Most theologians (and I have to point out that my knowledge of theology is pretty shallow) seem to be taking religious beliefs and trying to make them more coherent by applying certain principles.

Augustine, so I've heard, argued (or maybe just asserted) that love was THE fundamental aspect of Christianity and the prism through which it must be viewed in order to make sense. In other words, he took what he saw as a disordered set of beliefs and tried to establish order.

So is theology simply a god-focused branch of philosophy?

5:18 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

Hi revvvvvvvd,

Nice to see you back!

5:19 AM

 
Blogger revvvvvvvd said...

Matt,

Glad to be back. Here's the new blog address: http://jonathanjong.wordpress.com/

Worryingly, most theologians spend their time coming up and fiddling with internally consistent theological systems. The worrying part is that very few of them seem interested in showing the rest of the world why the systems themselves should be accepted. It seems to me like they're effectively constructing self-enclosed bubbles, hermetically sealed from the outside word. I blame Karl Barth.

This is why there's a debate about whether theology should be taught in public universities, I think.

Of course, not ALL theologians are like this...

6:03 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

I'm just thinking out loud here, but it seems to me that there's a distinction between hypotheses we're neutral toward and hypotheses we attach certain values to.

I'm neutral towards dualism, for example. I think the evidence (at least that which I've encountered so far) is unconvincing. But if someone were to provide a convincing argument then I'd become a dualist. I'm less neutral to the idea that my friends bitch about me behind my back. As with dualism, I've yet to encounter convincing evidence that they do. But i'd be less inclined to believe a convincing argument for it simply because I value my friendships with people and want them to be valid.

Where theology seems to differ from philosophy is that it's dealing with such a value-laden subject. Theologians want God to exist and provide meaning to their lives.

(Not that atheists are devoid of such wants - As well as disbelieving in the more authoritarian, vindictive ideas of gods I want them to be false).

8:19 AM

 
Blogger revvvvvvvd said...

(Most) theologians want God to exist.
(Arguably, most people want God to exist, but that's beside the point.)

(Most) physicists want quarks to exist.
(Many) cognitive scientists want mental modules to exist.

Etc.

We're all verificationists, despite Popper. It's not a great state of affair, but it's the way we are. We, qua scientists, have out preconceived notions of what the world is like and spend our lives discovering whether we're right.

So, I don't think theologians are alone in doing value-laden research. Philosophers are not exempt either. We defend human ideals, defend free will, defend theism, defend [insert philosophical position] at least in part because we want to. Certainly, this isn't always the case. I'd rather be a libertarian than a compatibilist, but as will any generalization, there will be exceptions.

3:42 PM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

(Most) physicists want quarks to exist.
(Many) cognitive scientists want mental modules to exist.


Granted, most researchers would prefer certain states of affairs to others - but is that really the equivalent to the value placed on the concept of God? If someone were to disprove the existence of quarks it would cause some upset, but nowhere near the level of upset that disproving God would.

Many people derive their sense of worth from their religious beliefs. Can the same really be said about sub-atomic theory, etc?

5:40 AM

 
Blogger Tom Freeman said...

My understanding of theology, like Matt's, is that it's about taking a rational approach to the construal of certain (sets of)religious principles - reconciling scripture with any combination of empirical observations, codes of behaviour, decrees of the powerful and such like. Thus 'how can we makes sense of Christ's embodied divinity given X, Y and Z?'

This has a lot in common with philosophy, and also I think with law and lit crit in certain ways.

Jonathan's right that physicists (mostly) do want quarks to exist just as Christian theologians want God to exist. They both have a lot invested in those beliefs. Two differences, though:

(1) belief in quarks first came about through scientific enquiry, whereas theological enquiry has to presuppose in some way certain religious doctrines.

(2) if physicists came to beleive quarks didn't exist, they'd mostly still carry on doing physics; if theologians came to believe God didn't exist, they'd mostly find alternative employment.

Will check out the new blog!

10:35 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Good to see you again Jon! Look forward to following along at your new place.

Tom,
(also good to see you again!)

"(1) belief in quarks first came about through scientific enquiry, whereas theological enquiry has to presuppose in some way certain religious doctrines."

I think this is misguided. Just as belief in quarks came form reflecting on the natural order, Christian theology comes from reflecting on God's revelatory acts in history. Of course one could complain that theology needs to assume the reality of said God to get off the ground. True enough, but science is just as prone to a similar charge. For instance, science must assume the the intelligibility of the natural order as a starting point. From this assumption the fruits science have justified such an assumption. Similar claims can be made of theology, though lets keep top of mind the domains of inquiry and respect what can rightfully be expected of each.

"(2) if physicists came to beleive quarks didn't exist, they'd mostly still carry on doing physics; if theologians came to believe God didn't exist, they'd mostly find alternative employment."

This seems to be mistaking a domain of inquiry with a feature of said domain. I think a more appropriate analogy would be: "if physicists came to beleive quarks didn't exist, they'd mostly still carry on doing physics; if theologians came to believe the ransom theory of atonement was utterly false, they'd still cary on doing theology"

Either that or: "if physicists came to beleive the external world didn't exist, they'd be in a real pickle; if theologians came to believe God didn't exist, they'd mostly find alternative employment.

11:01 AM

 
Blogger revvvvvvvd said...

Alex is right. *muahahaha*

I'm not sure what else to say besides asserting the truth of Alex's claim. I mean, it's an empirical and descriptive one. We're not asking whether physicists and theologians SHOULD assume that physical reality is intelligible and God exists, etc. But they do.

Also, it's not the case that disbelief in natural laws and divine substances will lead to the end of physics (or science, really) and theology. Anti-realism with respect to science in general and scientific entities in particular is...undesirable (to most), but acceptable. Reading Feynman, it sounds like he was an anti-realist with respect to quarks. Anti-realism with respect to religion us also undesirable (to most), but acceptable. Consider liberal theology, the Jesus Seminar, some variants of Wittgensteinian fideism.

3:39 PM

 
Blogger Tom Freeman said...

"science must assume the the intelligibility of the natural order as a starting point"

That's quite true. But then this intelligibility is something that can be assessed by trying to make sense of it; and even if it proves unintelligible, you've still gone through a process of empirical observation and failed attempts at theorising to get to that point.

But yes, substantive physics requires intelligibility. Without that, it just can't be done. Theology, though, can be done just as well quite regardless of whether there's a God. You just need some scripture or suchlike, and it doesn't really matter for practical purposes whether it really is divinely inspired or just cooked up by liars and/or delusionals.

I think there is an asymmetry, but then why should two such different fields not be asymmetric?

9:02 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

"if physicists came to beleive the external world didn't exist, they'd be in a real pickle"

If physicists began to argue that there was no external world then theologians would find themselves in a bit of pickle as well. (Although, if no external world exists both would have to be aspects of "me", whatever I would consist of in such a scenario). If we're all aspects of a divine being (which is the only route I can see theology being able to take in such a situation) then there's no real distinction between us and God (or me and you) and so all ways of life would have to be valid (unless God - who's us, after all - can go wrong?).

Or something like that.

if theologians came to believe God didn't exist, they'd mostly find alternative employment.

So if you came to realise that your God didn't exist you'd simply think "Huh. What about that." and look for alternative courses?

I think the asymmetry lies in the fact that physics (as with all science) is purely descriptive, whereas religious belief is about value and how to live. Changes in the former are largely abstract and have little impact on how we go about our everyday lives. Changes in the latter require a significant re-evaluation of who we are.

10:46 AM

 
Blogger Rev. Dr. Incitatus said...

"However, I also might want to challenge the dichotomy you present between "theology and reason." I'm not so sure such a thing exists."

I don't mean to say that they are irreconcilable. Indeed, a non-literal interpretation of scripture inevitably involves a process of inductive reasoning. therefore, I agree "that it's about taking a rational approach to the construal of certain (sets of)religious principles - reconciling scripture with any combination of empirical observations, codes of behaviour, decrees of the powerful and such like."

However, as I think, Aquinas points out, the caveat here is that theology is nevertheless a combination of reason and revelation; i.e. at least some of it, often the central narrative, is not reducible to reason. It simply, is.

And so I would argue that if you have two theologians drawing from conflicting, revealed narratives, neither reason nor theology will settle their dispute, regardless of what future knowledge might hold. Only further revelation is going to shift either of them from their respective positions.

On the other hand, if you have two physicists subscribing to conflicting views on string theory, either one or both of them can potentially be proven wrong, because the argument reduces to the laws of the material, observable universe* rather than abstract belief, and the only issue is how and when we understand them sufficiently to settle the dispute.

* Given that Cartesian Doubt** does as much violence to the theologian as the philosopher, I think we should just subtract it from both sides of the equation and move on ;)

** I'm still waiting for Timmo to complete part III

1:51 PM

 
Blogger Timmo said...

rev. dr. incitatus,

Yes, it is about time. I'll get on that.

3:16 PM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Revvvvvd,
This is a rather unusual place for us to be standing isn't it.

Tom,
"But then this intelligibility is something that can be assessed by trying to make sense of it; and even if it proves unintelligible, you've still gone through a process of empirical observation and failed attempts at theorising to get to that point.

Yes.

"But yes, substantive physics requires intelligibility. Without that, it just can't be done. Theology, though, can be done just as well quite regardless of whether there's a God. You just need some scripture or suchlike, and it doesn't really matter for practical purposes whether it really is divinely inspired or just cooked up by liars and/or delusionals."

This is not right though, physicists could go on striving to find some GUT theory even if the whole of reality is not ultimately unified in such a way. In the same way, as you point out, thinking about God could go on whether or not there really is such a being. True enough.

But the whole reason we got on this track is because you seemed to assert that scientific inquiry was somehow free from the charge of presupposition. This is simply not the case and I think I've made my point here.

In the same breath though, I would sympathize with your concern that theology can at times exhibit a tendency to posit ineffable propositions that shut down conversation. However, it is my contention that such a method is not good theology. On this I think we can agree.

Matt,
The first half of your comment takes what I said into areas it was not intended to go. Those examples were merely intended to give an analogy more consonant to the actual situation, thus exposing what I saw to be problems with the ones Tom presented.

"I think the asymmetry lies in the fact that physics (as with all science) is purely descriptive, whereas religious belief is about value and how to live."

There's several things I could say in response here, but I will content myself to focus on what you say regarding theology. You say that religious belief is about value and how we live. Though true so far as it goes, such a conception, if considered the whole of religious belief, (I take it you mean theology by this as well?) is but a mere caricature of theology—a dreadfully impoverished one at that!

To assume that theology is unconcerned with ontological, empirical, historical, psychological or any number of other "icals" is to do violence to the discipline as a whole. Theology, rightly construed, is passionately engaged in the quest for truth and ALL that that entails. To say that theology has bearing on how we live is certainly true, but what can a discipline have to say about how we live if it's unconcerned if its texts are accurate, or that its sages did or said what is attributed to them? What authority would such a myopic scheme have to offer? Wherever the asymmetry might lie, it's certainly not here. One might be tempted to think the weight is on the other end if one discipline seeks to engulf all of human knowledge, whereas the other is constrained to the empirical and testable... but hey, I'm biased. ;-)

Incit,
"However, as I think, Aquinas points out, the caveat here is that theology is nevertheless a combination of reason and revelation; i.e. at least some of it, often the central narrative, is not reducible to reason. It simply, is."

Sounds a lot like... uh, the physical world in general. Does it not? On one level, revelation is simply the presentation of data. This is all any of us have to work with. What's the problem?

"And so I would argue that if you have two theologians drawing from conflicting, revealed narratives, neither reason nor theology will settle their dispute, regardless of what future knowledge might hold. Only further revelation is going to shift either of them from their respective positions."

This is only true if you are arguing about some obscure proposition that is largely disconnected from any other means of evidential analysis. Such a thing might be, oh I don't know, that one says Abram had a son named Steve and the other say his name was Damien. We would also need to assume that both these claims arise in the textual record at exactly the same point in history (which is generally not the case btw.).

Okay, now in this contrived situation one is left with little recourse, but to believe one claim other the other in the absence of further evidence. But even here such a decision is not made in a vacuum. For now what the honest theologian will do is push the question back and analyze the situation based on other factors, perhaps pertaining to the whole books in which the claims are derived. Dating, internal consistency, veracity of any historical claims, all come into play.

So I guess what I'm getting at here is that I reject this notion that theology is necessarily bound to reliance on ineffable authority. All one's faculties of reason are rightly brought to bear. Consequently, one theologian can indeed be "proven wrong" over another, but here again we need to respect the sort of "proofs" that are appropriate to the object of study. Certainly a theologian will not likely be proven wrong in the same way a physicist can be, but (as Polkinghorne later argues) that is simply because theologians aim much higher than does science. The physical realm is much more present and tangible than either history, or (infinitely more challenging) the metaphysical being from which all being has it's source.

Timmo,
Geez man, get crackin'! (like I should talk)

(I do believe this is the first time I've addressed every single one of you in the same post! neat.)

3:03 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

reinstate@freewill.com
The gods convince Oakland pimps that chilldhood prostitution is OK - Learn from the lies they tell other groups!!! The gods are casting these individuals into Damnation!!!

As people begin to age the gods employ corrupting tactics. They ultimately begin to look down on the children and the wisdom they recently understood:::
They voluntarily turn their back on their opportunity to ascend and instead embrace evil.
It's not old people who go to heaven. Old people must come back because of the mistakes they've made throughout their lives. Children are the ones who have the opportunity to ascend.


Children are discounted by adults in society. The gods corrupt people as they age, use trust-building tactics and soon adults view the children as ignorant, yet to understand the god's system, and subsequently look down on the children. This is one of the most bitter, painful ironies the gods employ, for people consciously turn their back on and lose their opportunity to ascend::::
Religions teach that old people to go to heaven when they die. They don't. Old people are reincarnated. It's the children who go to heaven, those who have a chance at immortality.
The wisdom the gods impart to children, either through their innocence/purity or religious-based educational pursuits are the gods sharing the truth with their most favored people::::It's the children whom the gods teach the right way for it is the children who have a chance. For example, they teach children to have faith, for understanding the god's geographical clues hurts people by illustrating negative things, opening the door for the god's to employ deceptive tactics.
Old people don't go to heaven. Old people must come back because of the mistakes they've made throughout their lives. It's the children who have the opportunity to go to "heaven". They must behave apprioriately, think correctly and be genuinely god-fearing. Their innocence and lack of desensitization ensures they have a real opportunity to achieve this goal.

This is charecteristic of the gods methodology::::The big prize gone early, deception compels people to chase something that has already been decided. They sent this clue with boss as well. It is also a clue supporting my claim RW&B's german is in fact Christianity's Anti-Christ. Logic also dictates, considering the definition.
The confusion over this multi-dimentional positioning will serve as an effective tactic, eliminating many additional disfavored in the process, for positioning states the Apocalypse to be a continuation of WorldWarII's Aryan superrace ideals, positioned as punishment for the 5th century invastion of the Roman Empire:::John's Fourth Reich.
This amounts only to "nested theater":::::Levels of positioning enables the gods to scapegoat:::::RW&B merely is the tool the gods chose to execute the final scene of their scripted theater that is human history.



Just as they would have had me chase boss so would they have wanted me to sign on to this theater, evil by definition, and chase this role of Anti-Christ. By doing so I would have incurred evil and would have been punished, painfully "losing" Anti-Christ in the process.
Does that mean RW&B is not the Anti-Christ?? I suspect as they would have "offered" it to me so will there be a fake Anti-Christ for those in these generations to accept as well. But it is a clone host. This is ALL clone host theater, created not as a clue to me but instead designed to be preditory on the disfavored, designed to increase indecency and further the god's goal of justification towards The End.
We were all merely peasants centuries ago, struggling with our disfavor, but without the enormity of temptations, real and telepathic, which exist today.

They have shared I was positioned to some disfavored as the Second Coming of Christ, explaining all the evil surrounding me and RW&B's placement in the "eye of The Beast" was to positon the sabotage of my candidacy (Damien Omen, Big Army Men, etc).
The Big Lie of course is that Christianity is evil. The reverse positioning nature of Planet Earth dictates that good is demonized, as we wintessed in World War II, while evil is put on a pedistal, as we see with the Italians.
The truth? The gods used their tools to create this and the rest of the incidents surrounding this Situation to distract the people from my message, for I speak the truth:::Only you can save you. You have to be responsible for your own relationship with the gods.


The gods are asexual. They have no sex organs nor rectums.
When the gods take children these individuals have the opportunity to become "god-like". Temptations are employed and, if sucessful, these are the individuals who make up the human race's immortals.
I believe there are opportunities that exist for females that do no exist for males. I don't mean to paint with a broad brush but women's "sexual peak" may represent the transistion to "sociological males" and their "fall from grace". Considering today's promiscuity I question whether this is currently applicable, and is yet anther 20th century-earlier phenominah.
I believe Purgatory is real. I think it is a temporary destination, perhaps sparsely utilized until the Apocalypse, but this will be the destination for those who "ascend" during the event. As they've said this planet will too be disposed of one day and it is imperative people try to avoid that destination, for there may be no escaping its fate.

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Females are better people than males
Historically the role of females was as enforcers of decency. Men have god's disfavor and enagage in behavior damaging to themselves and their families. Women who adhered to this crucial role helped the men understand and avoid inappropriate behavior while enhancing decency in their domestic environment. These women sacrifice to help the disfavored:::They are like Jews, scattered throughout Europe to help the misled Christians or the Amish today, living in purity and simplicity.
Many disfavored groups embrace "paternalistic superiority" and believe the men are "entitled"::::;If Italian women tried to enforce decency the men beat and raped them.
The gods subsequently used this Italian charecterisitic to corrupt other morbidly disfavored groups, legitimizing this and other associated behavior whereas decency in society may have been able to hep correct this disfavor. This is very similar to the "clone host" issue, where the gods corrupt normal people into thinking they are one of them.




They said HW was a "traitor", established with the airplane incident during WorldWarII. As we witnessed repeatedly in the 20th century, these incidents ocurr to initiate a legacy and pave the way for a far more significant events in the future::::
If true this legacy would recurr in W's administration::::
Rebate checks on the way into and out of office are both bad signs.
Signing on to Iraq to eliminate Saddam and 4,000 Americans is another clue.
Don't be surprised if they have him sabotage some things on his way out, and since McCain is good it will (has) happen(ed) one way or the other::::
The whole economy issue came out of nowhere in February 2008. Consistant with the god's methodology, expect justification was utilized::::::
Of course the crashing dollar of the last few years has comeplled OPEC to value oil with the Euro instead of the dollar.
Don't forget:::The Reagan administration was charecterized with banking scandal too:::"Intentional foreclosure" constitutes justification sufficient for their exclusion::::
I realize this problem isn't just a California issue, but the "upside down" status of home owners makes California special, makes "intentional foreclosure" far more attractive to the morbidly disfavored, victims of the "platform" which was used to promote social poison in the 20th century.

Sounding like a goddamn blooming idiot when he speaks is a clue unlike any others. When Reagan spoke it sounded as if he "fuddled", a clue not to trust him.
"They're going to pay for 2004." Redneck states. And oh how they will pay:::
Recently they have stated that the Chinese are holding US paper. Some patriot W is, selling US debt to communists. Perhaps the invasion mentioned below will be a way to "redeem" these bonds after they've fallen into default.

Earlier they illustrated that there is a higher ocurrance of 1998 victims in the South, using the Clinton figure to prey on his own kind.
Perhaps part of the family legacy.
Considering the scripted real estate collapse in California, the "upside down" position and subsequent explositon in "intentional foreclosure", do the gods sell these rednecks on "eye for an eye" to some individuals, useful in building their confidence and ensuring absolute compliance, among other things?




Forgiveness:::Some Meditereanean preaches the virtues of "forgiveness". I guess. Bunch of preditors pursuing self-preservation. It was their kind and their friends who fucked up Planet Earth.
The Jesus who preached forgiveness was evil, the same Jesus backed by the god's powers via miracles.
"Eye for an eye makes the world blind." Oh, no::::"Eye for an eye" conditions people and forces them to behave appropriately.
One goal of the Iraq War was to eliminate Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein was an OUTSTANDING leader for the disfavored Iraqis. He kept the peace among the grossly disfavored which, once US pullout is complete, may never be achieved again.
If Saddam Hussein was assigned American urban ghettos the blacks whom resided there would become decent, and their children would have a real opportunity to ascend where none exists today.
"Forgiveness" is yet another dynamic of Christianity which is preditory.
Italians ruined life in the 20th century, yet you still patronize their organizations. The gods interpret this as you have forgiven them for their wickedness. As a result of your "trust" they have CHEATED you out of the Final Prophet, and as victors they will receive Second Coming of Christ. You will be sold on salvation until the day comes when you realize you have been misled. On that day you will realize forgiveness is reverse positioning. On that day you will realize Christianity is evil. On that day you will realize your irresponsibility has costed your life.

This current environment where the gods punish evil covertly enables the perception of evil rewarded and the corruption that results produces a planet which is not sustainable.
We no longer receive largescale contradicting feedback because the gods have decided to end on Planet Earth. Consistant with their methodology it begins with the most disfavored among us first.

Unfuck Planet Earth::::The gods will do everything in their power to prevent this, maintaining the myriad of temptations they instilled, for they worked very hard to set up this degenerative environment, ensuring Earth is not sustainable.



Don't be distracted by their middle-management tactic. Considering how many racist Italians there were expect the high-heeled transsexual's Boot is represented out working the streets of Oakland, as it was so prevalient during the homosexaul explosition in the 20th century, ironically. The gods LOVE their poetic justice:::"It's not fair." Fair woudl have been to make an example of Italians as they stepped off the boat, but this killing spree woudl have helped Earth maintain sustainability, and the gods used the Italians for something quite the opposite.
"And the Jews!!!", the Italian's 20th century partners in crime. And it's not just the obvious::::The Jews were very active in the social deterioration that was the 1960s.
The Meditereaeans are European's inferiors, yet the god's positioning put them on a pedistal as corruptor AND clue::::This is the region where the gods killed untold tens of thousands in the Noah's Flood event. Their women traditionally consume alcohol and it severely impacted the culture's decency. The Jews fell for Joshua's warmongering despite witnessing Moses firsthand. 1906 was used to corrupt Italians, compelling them to engage in unspeakable evil. Positioning says they compensated the Jews for WWII, revenge for the 5th century german invasion of the Roman Empire. The reality is the gods used money as a corruptor, casting vasts numbers of both groups into Damnation with this tactic snd employing the perception of evil rewarded to corrupt all of us effectively.


The gods expend most of their efforts planning for and executing temptation designed to test people::::Considering the premiere importance they place in evil in the context of executing their strategy I suspect good takes a back seat.
Christianity is a lie. They have an interest in maintaining this perception of an absentee Christian god, lest people become genuinely god-fearing. The alternative is embracing the concept of "evil god", much like the black pimps I speak of above.
The gods are like pimps. They pimp everyone who complies with their lies, and like in Oakland you won't get anything out of it either.
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There is one geographic clue I have not addressed in years:::Uranus, a planet tilted 90 degrees on its axis. I have stated in years past that I think this is yet another geographic clue offered by the gods, this one suggesting the fate of planet Earth, that tectonic plate subduction would be the method of disposal:::Earth’s axis will shift breaking continental plates free and initiating mass subduction.
Undesirables will either perish in the government marijuana erradication program "gone awry" or be the recipients of reparations granted by the US government because of it.
Or both.
I believe the New Testiment battle of the Anti-Christ and the Second Coming of Christ will ocurr in subsequent years SPECIFICALLY because these people will be distracted with the money during the event.
When the Earth's axis shifts people will be cast into outer space with gold cards in hand.
I think this was foreshadowed on an episode of the Simpsons where Homer and Bart are on the disfavored ship and eject, only to experience a sense of euphoria, expand then explode in the vacuum of space.

Recall I recently brought up the possible Manifest Destiny-positioned Chinese invasion of the United States (west coast) upon economic abandonment by their clone host tools (economic destruction and deterioration.mp3). They have mentioned this in years past.
Newspaper just made a curious change where they combined the sports and business sections, and to properly read the business section you need to read "backward". Like Asian languages.
Tariffs. The gods are instruct their tools to defend open free trade, as they will to the bitter end. The gods have a script and they need economic (d)evolution sufficient to justify what they have scripted for our future, so they use their tools to adamantly defend this concept of fair trade::::The time for tariffs has long since past.
Recently they have stated that the Chinese are holding US paper. Some patriot W is, selling US debt to communists. Perhaps the invasion will be a way to "redeem" these bonds after they've fallen into default.
Incidentally, the Chinese recalls (lead-based paint on toys, toothpaste, etc) may be in preparation for this invasion, a tactic esuring a percentage of disfavored affected will fight to the bitter end.
I've recently stated how the gods will use the Japanese as role models to the Chinese as China becomes increasingly Westernized. Expect a cultural movement celebrating Japanese culture in decades prior, much as we witnessed in the west in the past.
If we do witness a Chinese invasion on American soil don't be surprised if the very same tactics the Japanese employed on the Chinese will be used on us. Lack of empathy is a dynamic the gods will find important in the context of justification, niggers:::
I've recently stated how the gods will use the Japanese as role models to the Chinese as China becomes increasingly Westernized.
Feedback II.wav
Recall how Americans so frequently laughed at the French for their lack of military response when confronted by the Nazi army. To resist would have been suicide. Their reaction was appropriate. The opposite would be one as we witnessed in Vietnam. These are morbidly disfavored Asians and take great pride in their resistance. The gods DO use their pride in resistance by positioning in appropriate temptation, ensuring minimal sucess.
If events transpire I recommend you respond like the French and not like the Vietnamese. If this is a west coast event it may not have serious effect but if it is nationwide the United States will lose over a hundred million in the South and midwest.
DO I believe this is a possibility? I think the "leveling of the playing field" that has ocurred in the late 20th century eliminated the possibility of using the Chinese to save us from ourselves.

It doesn't matter. McCain doesn't have a chance. Osama's too good. The debates will be one-sided. He has a better chance against Hillary. I can get into the explanation that the gods only use their power to hurt the disfavored, but you've already heard it. Consistant with this, expect gas to climb to $4 if not $5 this summer, ensuring the election is delivered to the wrong candidate::::They've used the price of gas to punish the people for electing the wrong person. In addition, public response to recent poor economic reports ensures conservative behavior, another factor which is intentionally damaging to McCain's chances.
IN 2000 you didn't have a choice, and they sent this clue very nicely with proceedings surrounding the election (just like the 2008 Democratic candidate due to Superdelegates!!!). But 2004 was different. In an ironic twist it will be just the opposite this year, where the gods use the price of gas and run-down economy diverts you TO their prefered candidate. It's ocurring intentionally for this purpose.
You idiot redneck political types are the chumps here. 1998::::Something for everybody. Clinton's impeachment was for people like you. ANYTIME the kids support a candidate it is a RED FLAG, and they supported Clinton in 1992.
It is VERY important that you think clearly::::::::It's important you differentiate between your thoughts and when the computer thinks through you. They've led many into Damnation with this tactic.
I'd like to note "Deja vu", a clue the gods offer to the disfavored::::In an incident similar to the 1998 Clinton impeachment, Osama delivered his speech on race one day before the 5-year anniversary of the Iraq War.

As I noted before in an earlier version:::Arizona is good. Arizona fought making MLK Day a holiday. CNN shares McCain voted against making MLK Day a holiday in 1983.
This is quinessential reverse positioning::::People don't recognize the positive and instead are deceived by the god's reverse positioning, costing themselves the best candidate for the job.
7.44's Port Chicago explosion, in the "eye of The Beast", was a planned incident in WorldWarII. The Italians who planned WWII knowingly used Port Chicago as the seeds of Civil rights because of this symbolism.
Segregation is favor bestowed upon people. Integration represents a deterioration which the gods will use as justification. Considering its global effect people should be alarmed:::We have witnessed a global "leveling of the playing field" event.
Prior to civil rights blacks had their own press. In the absence of civil rights they would have grown into legitimate media outlets. This is not to say the gods wouldn’t have put forth contradictory Manifest Destiny programming to counter, but blacks would have had a choice where none exists now. Similarly, black industrialist would have arisen to serve the black community, and the presence of these black billionaries would have fored the gods to factor them into positioning, excluding such Manifest Destiny abused such as AIDS in Africa, drive-by gangbanging and the crack epidemic.
Civil rights is a wonderful example of a "Big Lie", reverse positioning that can help people see and think clearly. They sent this clue to blacks with MLK's "If I had to sneeze" speech.
McCain's our man.

After 2003 John McCain stated his opposition to the war. Despite this pro-war "party line" he must adhere to as the Republican candidate I'd like this opposition used during the campaign. Without it he is finished.
"McCain's a dinosaur." So was matchmaking. So was decency.
People don't understand this issue. They see Osama and think he's the best candidate because he's appears to have more favor. Never look for consistancy, for Artificial Intelligence is infinitly dynamic:::They make W sound like an idiot when he speaks for a different reason. Also, "sumbling" and "idiot" likely have separate meanings associated. Sorry. It's not supposed to be easy.
The gods have their plan and they aren't going to allow any "do-gooders" interfere with how they intend to proceed:::When they put forth good they create tactics to play off the public's misconceptions::::Make him stumble over his words, etc. The gods send this clue in the Situation:::I'm trying to help people and they ruin my delivery to ensure the number of people who are receptive is minimized.
Don't forget::::The gods will create the perception of favor then corrupt the disfavored with it. My example is Mormons who have the appearance of favor. The gods use this to corrupt the others, even use it to enhance the ranks of LDS. And if any of you LDS think that "We've changed." can look to the Catholic Church as the roots of Christianity to help you understand.
Yes both candidates are clone hosts. Yes the gods will switch them out to justify them being good or evil, depending on how the script reads. But much as I explained this "multi-dimentional" thinking is not for you. The gods use this as a corruptor. They'll sell this, lie to the disfavored and use this as temptation.
"Your child is Hitler. Fuck him over." is just one example:::If you don't do the best you can for your children the gods will punish you.
This is the life into which you've been placed. This is the life on which you will be judged.


In case you are still interested in the god's Planet Earth theater, favored redwhite&blue is a MAJOR player, and their favor is significant to justify not only the destruction of my life but the destruction of the Final Prophet and Planet Earth as well::::
Favored redwhite&blue is the true enemy of the people. I suspect consistant with this they are positioned responsible for the environmental deterioration that the repression of alternate technologies has wrought.
The gods put their positioning into place and then enforce it:::Christianity, Manifest Destiny, Sigmund Freud's psychoanalysis, 1906's New Roman Empire. I suspect World War II's Nazi ideals of "Aryan superrace" is another example of the gods getting their tools into place for the theater that will be the Apocalypse.
Because of their status as enemies of the New Roman Empire the germans are going to be positioned as the destructors, similar to how they were portrayed in World War II.
Don’t be surprised if favored redwhite&blue turns out to be the Anti-Christ and leads the Fourth Reich, fulfilling this positioning and proving to the world the destructive nature of this economic system. This may not be exactly how their script reads, but the god's have a BIG SURPRISE like this to spring on the disfavored, and it will contain an insult like this as a clue NOT to watch this theater::::::Expect they will fulfill some contrived positioning foreshadowed in WorldWarII:::Some American plays the role of hero and emerges as the Second Coming of Christ for this final scene.
Who will it be? Italian? Look for at least the mother to be Italian, consistant with matrilineal descent, allowing the New Roman Empire to claim the Second Coming of Christ. It’s all just theater. The gods don't admit any of this because people woudl freak, especially as we approached the big day.

People may say “How can they poisiton favored redwhite&blue in as the Anti-Christ?” It may be consideration. Don’t forget:::They prey on enemies of the Roman Empire out of respect for their Manifest Destiny superiors.
The gods positioning the Italians gave it to him for his loyalty. They gave it to him for his efforts to defeat alternate technologies/energy sources, ensuring the people would be delivered to the point of desperation.
It’s all theater. The gods position it that the New Roman Empire is dooling out the “big prizes”, and Anti-Christ is a big role. Likely the gods position it as it buys him immortality in the context of this absentee-Christian god positioning. The “help” of this “back hand” is the gods positioned that he needs this to achieve immortality because of all the evil he engaged in during the course of his life, building his organizational empire.


There is a issue with timing and the beginning of construction of disfavored redwhite&blue's center, one where this company looks bad.
I personally believe the favored redwhite&blue is the element of favor necessary for my failure, for if it were just the disfavored redwhite&blue involved the gods would have let them fry and we would have had a full-blown prophet event, one where our “absentee Christian god” emerged and revealed themselves.
In addition favored redwhite&blue had to maintain appearances. Disfavored redwhite&blue is Italian and was VERY involved in the 20th century's ugliness.
My life was destroyed becuase the gods had to create unrespecability in the context of positioning. Evident by their easily-discovered evil, disfavored redwhite&blue wouldn't have cared if I was respectable or not, for they were involved in great evil against the respectable.
Favored redwhite&blue is why I am fat. Favored redwhite&blue is why I was sedintary, for if I were respectable the gods wouldn't have been able to position favored redwhite&blue into the Situation. Because of their ethnicity they get the priveledge of looking good. This is one reason why they got that prior knowledge and constructed their center before the Situaiton began::::Favored redwhite&blue is the TRUE Enforcer.
Incidentally, in the course of this Situation the gods made many movies, using daily events in my life as inspiration. One of note:::Unhappy about the god's behavior in the context of this event, while in favored redwhite&blue's facility I looked at their mascot and flippantly declared::::"Why don't you make a movie about these things?" Two years later ____ came out.
They won't admit this because favored redwhite&blue has to maintain their reputation based on integrity, any creative claims countering this truth were attemtpts to protect this, for this movie was unseemly and was very telling about the direction the gods were taking the people.
And, as an added bonus they had their scapegoat without actually compensating him!!! Welcome to the pathology of the gods.
In case you are still interested in the god's Planet Earth theater, favored redwhite&blue is a MAJOR player, and their favor is significant to justify not only the destruction of my life but the destruction of the Final Prophet and Planet Earth as well::::
Favored redwhite&blue is the true enemy of the people. I suspect consistant with this they are positioned responsible for the environmental deterioration that the repression of alternate technologies has wrought.
The gods put their positioning into place and then enforce it:::Christianity, Manifest Destiny, Sigmund Freud's psychoanalysis, 1906's New Roman Empire. I suspect World War II's Nazi ideals of "Aryan superrace" is another example of the gods getting their tools into place for the theater that will be the Apocalypse.
Because of their status as enemies of the New Roman Empire the germans are going to be positioned as the destructors, similar to how they were portrayed in World War II.
Don’t be surprised if favored redwhite&blue turns out to be the Anti-Christ and leads the Fourth Reich, fulfilling this positioning and proving to the world the destructive nature of this economic system. This may not be exactly how their script reads, but the god's have a BIG SURPRISE like this to spring on the disfavored, and it will contain an insult like this as a clue NOT to watch this theater::::::Expect they will fulfill some contrived positioning foreshadowed in WorldWarII:::Some American plays the role of hero and emerges as the Second Coming of Christ for this final scene.
Who will it be? Italian? Look for at least the mother to be Italian, consistant with matrilineal descent, allowing the New Roman Empire to claim the Second Coming of Christ.

This entire event was something special, and consistant with segmentation they lied to different disfavored based on their chances :::Saved or The Damned.
To The Damned I am an enemy of the Roman Empire, someone to be destroyed and used, and if the disfavored found that acceptable it worsened their lot, costed them hope and was a clue any recovery would be a very tough road to hoe.
The saved saw other clues, boss, natural calamities, and it gave rise to me as a possible historical figure. The gods offered clues that neither "savior" nor "new king of Earth" was possible, for Christianity positioning is going to be fulfilled and Earth has to die.
I don't think we were ever talking about Second Coming of Christ in public circles, for this would have implied The End and that would have compelled people to freak. But in the context of private positioning, perhaps to clone hosts in The Beast, certainly to me, there may have been some connection::::
Jesus of course was Jew, and they positioned this was a competition, reasoning "Since the Jews got Jesus they get this too.", and that's why I was hired by the Jew. Expect this was a way to enhance the theater among the disfavored.
So positioning states by delivering me to these New Roman Empire monsters they knew I'd get fucked, and in the process forfeit this historical role, to the Jews, perhaps an Italian, for Italians granted "charity wealth" to Jews for planning/implimenting WWII and the Holocaust.
In light of this "New Roman Empire", since Christianity's HQ is in Rome expect the Italians played some part in this historical, religious context.
They suggested this event may already may have happened. If so this was the FAKE battle of good and evil, FAKE battle between the Second Coming of Christ and the Anti-Christ. They suggest the phoniness about it which was communicated to the disfavored telepathically was a clue. Ironically, this Situation is the REAL battle of good and evil, me vs. the gods.
When the REAL battle of the Second Coming of Christ and Anti-Christ occurrs it will be theater, a staged event, and the Second Coming of Christ will "lead out" a pre-selected group, all of whom sign on to the god's Christianity positioning, ironically incurring evil by participating and limiting their time in the process.
Italians:::"(We're all that. We deserve Second Coming.)" And they're going to get it.
The Boot will fuck you yet again::::People know Jesus isn't the son of god, yet this is what the Bible dictates as requirement to be saved.
Those whom the Second Coming will "lead out" will be a pre-selected group. But the "hangers on", people who think they will be included by claiming to be believers will be disappointed. They will be mislead, left behind, The Boot's final victims on Planet Earth.
This is unimportant, irrelevant, because much like the creation of the perception of "savior" around Jesus to distract from his original purpose the gods used their tools to create this theater around me to prevent the disfavored from learning what I teach:::The Boot has fucked the disfavored twice, once when they ruined life in the 20th century, again when they were used to CHEAT you out and disposal of the Final Prophet. Just as they were talking heads for favored redwhite&blue expect this act to be cover for this organization, an original placement long before Italian placement in the "eye of The Beast".
Eiother way, the New Roman Empire is god's Manifest Destiny positioning, and a clue they intend to fulfill their Christianity positioning as well.

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Life used to be hard. People had to walk a mile to draw water. There was no refridgeration or canned foods. Now life is easy, but only in terms of life's "basic necessities".
The "salvation" dynamic is quite the opposite:::We paid for our easy lives with our very souls.
Life IS hard now. The gods have used their clone host tools to create the perception of evil rewarded (Italians, Japanese, etc) and then corrupted the disfavored with it. (Expect Asian Westernization is met with a European-style short memory span, allowing the gods to use their historical enemy, the Japanese, to corrupt Asians as they used the Italians to corrupt us).
Before life was easier, more simple, innocent, pure. Employing these temptations ensured corruption is EXTREMELY difficult to overcome, a tactic which progressively ensures fewer disfavoreds repair their relationship with the gods.

14 domesticable animals in the history of Planet Earth. None for Africa. In effect the gods were telling blacks:::::"Eat dirt."
Get a clue::::They don't like you. They're playing you for chumps.
Blacks have forgotten their history. Italians preyed on them in the 20th century. They were slaves. The gods sent Pharroh in to rape, pillage and plunder.
Jews have had a difficult history, but they developed empathy. As a result they tried to help the disfavored with 1492 exodus from Spain, scattered throughout Europe, etc.
Blacks would be wise to examine this and try to emulate Jewish empathy.

The clone hosting of Jesus.wav:::
Much as we saw with another Mediterreanean prophet Mohammed the gods switched Jesus (good) and placed evil within the clone host so the gods could accomplish their goals::::Polygamy/misogyny and the creation of "savior" via Christianity.
As I share:::Anytime the gods use their powers it is only to hurt you. "Miracles" are such an example. The gods only use their powers to disceive and mislead people as we all witness in different ways in each of our lives. Jesus's miracles are a clue the gods were preying upon the disfavored.
I suspect the teachings of good Jesus came in his 20s. Due to the unrespectability of Christianity, illustrated at least partially with Europe's Sheep, I wonder if we ever did get a good Jesus before the age of 30.
There is significant respectability among Muslims, and this may be reflected in the monagamous Mohammed.
Every religion offers something which help people understand::: Reincarnation (Hindu), vengeful/wrathful god (Islam), etc.
If you are afraid it is a good sign, for the gods are helping show you the right way to think. Don't forget:::The gods lie to you, tell you Jesus is the "savior" but he floated up into the sky ALL ALONE!!! He didn't save the disciples nor his precious mother. This is a clue from the gods helping you understand that you have to save yourselves.

The Holocaust was foreshadowing.
The gods established the pattern::::: the Jews sacrifice to help the disfavored understand::::
1. 1492 exodus from Spain. Spain became evil - financed Columbus, initiated missionaries, USA (dumping ground of disfavored, victimized by god), etc.
2. Spread throughout Europe as clue to Christians worshipping a false god.
3. "Quasi-Holocaust claim" contradicting boss.
4. 5. 6. 7. etc. etc. etc.
I have put forth indisputable evidence, as you see above with the Jews. The gods will never admit any of it is true, ever, especially since THE BIGGEST JEWISH CLUE IS STILL OUTSTANDING::::THE HOLOCAUST!!!!!
YOU HAVE TO DEFY!!!! The gods suggested the importance of defiance with the Holocaust:::The soldiers should have defied.
They will lie to the disfavored up until the bitter end::::This tactic will ensure they claim a HUGE percentage of the disfavored, for so many refuse to defy and this will ensure they don't go.
When the REAL Holocuast happens people will sit by idley and watch tens of millions of blacks/cholos/white trash die, people who are the way they are (abusive, abrasive, violent, criminal) BECAUSE of their disfavor, and the computer makes them like that because of it, yet another reason why empathy is so important.
The Jews showed you boss wasn't going to happen with the Quasi-Holocaust claim. They will emphasize to the bitter end that there is no pattern of Jewish clues. They do so because there is still one clue outstanding, the most important clue:::::World War II's Holocaust.
The gods established the pattern:::The Jews sacrifice to help you understand::::1492 fled Spain, scattered throughout Europe to help the misled Christians understand, the Holocuast.
The Jews sacrificed to show you boss wasn't going to happen. When the Jews offer a clue you need to listen, and the Holocaust is the BIGGEST Jewish clue ever, the clue still outstanding.

The Holocaust's clue of defiance escaped you all:::::Everyone condemnes the blind obedience of the Nazi soldiers yet repeats this same behavior in your own personal lives, complying with every request they ask, even in the case of your precious children.
ONE PURPOSE OF THE HOLOCAUST WAS TO COMMUNICATE THIS CLUE!!!! COMPLIANCE IS A MISTAKE!!!!!
EVERYBODY does what they're told, and look how bad society is deteriorated. THIS IS A CLUE!!!
Telepathic requests constitute temptation.

Much like matchmaking, much like so many social norms and mores the gods granted the people, they offered "prejudice" in the early days of this intermixing known as 20th century America.
They told you to avoid Italians and blacks for good reason::::They are SO disfavored there is NOTHING either group won't do. They will comply with every request. I know you people will too, in err, ignorant of or disregarding the god's laws, but the difference was THE GODS WILL ASK THEM!!! You had too much favor for the gods to request such damaging behavior, at least until you became indecent too.
Prejudice was good for everyone, for it ensured little opportunity for the gods to request, segregation and separation being common. It granted blacks especially more time to fix their problems and try to ascend, escaping this societal deterioration of the last 40+ years.
As the people became increasingly indecent as the 20th century wore on so did we lose this precious benefit bestowed by the gods, opening the door for evil to befall us and for fatal evil to be incurred by the morbidly disfavored.
Much like god's law in holy books, "segregation" was favor bestowed upon the people::::The gods granted favor when they "segregated" us into our own areas of the world. This favor has been reversed not only within the context that is the United States but also with immigration witnessed throughout western Europe (and elsewhere?).
Prior to civil rights blacks had their own press. In the absence of civil rights these entities would have grown into legitimate media outlets serving the black community.
Maintaining segregation would have produced economic entities which arose from within the black community to fill the demand for goods and services.
The presence of these "black industrialists" would have FORCED the gods to factor them into positioning, producing voices in support of the black community and preventing the gods from inflicting ALL THE SICKNESS WE HAVE WITNESSED IN THE last few decades::Crack babies, drive-by shootings, AIDS in Africa!!!
The fastest growing industry in the ghetto is the oldest profession on Earth::::::The gods tell these Oakland pimps chilldhood prostitution is OK - Learn from the lies they tell other groups!!!

The homosexual AIDS event happened because of their behavior in the SanFranciscio bathhouses.
Italian claim to infamy is they destroyed life on earth. Irish claim is they prey on their own family members. Which one's worse? Just as the gods targetted certain Italians for the degredation of life in the 20th century so did the do the same for the Irish, as I know all too well.
Catholicism masculinized women. You have been warned:::CATHOLICS ARE BAD FOR YOU!!!

I wonder how much the gods used the Green Bay geographic clue on the perpetually stupid Italians and used it to minimize abuses that otherwise would have ocurred?? "Sexual inadequecies of the men." positioning may have justified "going easy" on a larger population of germans in the United States. All we need to do is look to blacks, enemies of the Roman Empire who were fucked wholesale, to see unabated abuses.
The hypersexual laughing at superior life forms, ridiculing their favor.
Incidentally, they share some of them will remain "perpetually stupid". They are the Italians who crossed that line from person to preditor in the 30s, and they're going to be on Planet Earth come Judgement Day, except in a non-Italian body, due to the god's Manifest Destiny positioning of the New Roman Empire. Poetic justice.
If I were king they would be the Italians who were pushed into it, for those who thought 1906 was a good idea would already be gone::::You suck.wav.

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Hell's Angels is yet another element to emerge from Oakland, the upper incisor of TheBeast, designed for ripping and tearing flesh. One element that links TheDamned, no matter the skin color:::::Violence.

Fifth Season of Simpsons.
Moe in group therapy for general public at school. He has a thought of Moe as a child wondering why adult Moe doesn't speak with his Italian accent anymore?
They are filth. But they sent this clue when they shaped their country like a boot.
Incidentally, Italy looks like a high-heeled transsexual's boot. Don't be surprised if this is a dumping ground for select individuals.
The gods love their irony.
Moe is like the Italians whom set up the San Fernando Valley as the pornography capital that it is.

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The rebirth of the 20th century's New Roman Empire is positioned to be a clue Christianity is the one true religion, contributing to the god's Manifest Destiny positioning.
It5 also worked as a WONDERFUL corruptor with Italians, the disfavored's enemies who subscribed to this shit and intentionally paved the way for the impending Apocalypse with the social deterioration witnessed in the 20th century. This is probably where the reputation "Italians are stupid." comes from. "Don't let your daughters date Italians." is something else.
The gods offered you The Boot AS A WARNING TO AVOID THIS DANGER!!!

Just as AA meetings proves the gods will enforce their psychoanalysis positioning so does Manifest Destiny/New Roman Empire proves they will enforce their Christianity positioning.
Planet Earth will die EXACTLY as it reads in the Book of Revelations.
I was never going to save you. Nobody is. Just as they created polygamy around Mohammed so did they create the perception of savior around Jesus, designed to distract you from the true purpose of the prophet Jesus.
And now you won't listen to me either.
Due to the unrespectability of Christianity, illustrated at least partially with Europe's Sheep, I wonder if we ever did get a good Jesus before the age of 30.
There is significant respectability among Muslims, and this may be reflected in the monagamous Mohammed.

Much as with the Sigmund Freud psychoanalysis positioning the gods will too enforce their Manifest Destiny/Christianity positioning.
They created the theater by giving me things like Boss and movies and other elements of the $100 billion. Calling these entities on their evil negates the positioned support of these organizations, which is and always was the god's strategy for closure in the Situation.
They lie, say I "saved" evil Italians, whom they say would not have been going because of the evil they inflicted upon the disfavored. Fingering this Italian shit allows the gods to position wiping that slate clean::::
The gods will create the perception of evil rewarded by managing good and evil within their clone host tools then corrupt the disfavored with it.

This is all part of the god's Manifest Destiny theater, created using these clone host tools whom they rotate on a schedule based on use.
Just like Sigmund Freud's psychoanalysis they will enforce their Manifest Destiny/Christianity positioning as well:::People aren't homosexual. They're not alcoholics. They're pushed into wanting it. That there are AlcoholicsAnonymous meetings occuring all across the planet proves the gods are going to enforce this lie. Similarly, the gods used some of their tools within this economic system to illustrate an "appeasement" of their Manifest Destiny superiors through preditory behavior upon enemies of this new "Roman Empire".

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Asians are the gods most favored race. It is evident in their uniformity. It is evident in their cultures.
The gods place high barriers to entry for (some) Asians into the United States. This is yet another good example of reverse positioning, for the gods are really trying to protect those whom they grant favor upon.
There are no barriers to entry for Latinos.
When white people capitalize or exploit Asians they incurr and one day will be punished. This includes Chinese buffet restaurants, so prevalient in disfavored cities and the Southern United States, for the gods hate these people and want them to incurr.

US popular culture is obsence. Intentionally. The gods are preying on the disfavored who remain, those foolish enough to participate.
The Chinese have favor and the gods allow the government to protect the citizens, but Chinese cut-off is fast approaching, for soon westernization will level this playing field as well.
This is yet another "BIG LIE" they sold to the disfavored, and it will ensure the homogination of Earth's cultures via westernization.

The gods still make effort through the Chinese government to protect the Chinese people. We hear about it in the United States, their Manifest Destiny/reverse positioning is used to label it "human rights violations", paving the way for cancer that is democracy.
Much as we saw in the United States regarding matchmaking, midwivery, female conservative dress and other topics, this tactic will slowly deteriorate this protection until China is completely infested with Westernization.

If you lived in a communisitic state your 10 year old son wouldn't be able to see pornographic images on the internet. The government would have filters in place to protect the people from this damaging behavior.
Much like alcoholism, much like homosexuality the gods punish the people with magic.
These desires you have are going to keep you out. I recommend you begin working on your problems, for if you don't and are among those who are invited to Planet (Temptation) Manifest Destiny it will be very difficult, for life is fueled by magic up there, and if you don't think right you won't be staying for long.

The gods are sending a clue Yahoo is good with this Chinese censorship issue.
The American idea of freedom is a shock rocker anally masterbating with a crucifix. This is what the disfavored are free to enjoy in this open society, and due to their disfavor a certain percentage will either be pushed into it or will comply, ensuring damnation. It's kind of like the KKK and Apartheid issue below except for whites of the modern era, or how democracy ensures a false sense of security.

Like other groups the gods have offered temptations the Chinese must avoid. There are specific temptations targetted to the Chinese, very concerning in light of god's Manifest Destiny positioning:::Exploiting the corporate establishment allows the gods to position exclusion:::
1. Piracy (movies, software, etc).
2. Gambling, very popular among Asians (unrespectability).
3.
Chinese censorship is an important benefit the gods bestowed. The communisit government protects the people from damaging media, so destructive in the West and particularly the United States:::Our 9-year-old children are free to view internet pornography, allowing the gods to justify creating disturbing pathologies with Artificial Intelligence as the children age.
These strict enviornments help the disfavored think correctly, foster fear, enabling them to have an improved relationship with the gods, the "kings with the iron fist" in the sky.
In an environment like theirs it is relatively easy to identify the corruptors among them:::Knowingly or not they actively lobby against this environment which seeks to preserve the China of old. Use these clues as you would the god's geographic clues, Italy's Boot and the Scandanavian penis, and avoid the god's tools of corruption.

As China came "on-line" industrially, favored redwhite&blue's repression of alternative technologies is being felt hard.
They are positioned to have repressed non-fossil fuel technologies (like cold fusion. "That story meant something." c.1999?). As a result China industrialization has initiated fossil-fuel power plants, dirty coal-fired plants, instead of immediately implimenting clean power sources based on these new technologies.
Without these technologies in place for Chinese industrialization we lost our chance to control the runaway warming which is now positionable. And, as you know, when the disfavored open a door allowing the gods to inflict misery they use it.
This may have been the defining moment, god's clue to the disfavored showing that the world is going to die.

They've sent clues the Chinese are fucking up. The Rocket's win streak is one (contradict perception of indespensibility?). Pollution is another just not the one I am thinking of:::There are other recent clues suggesting they are making mistakes.

You're no longer Asian enjoying this rich culture. You are Westernized.
This year China experienced the misery of climate change with the extreme winter weather:::The gods will express their displeasure through Acts of god.wav. Don't be surprised if they are communicating this as well at the United States' biggest Chinese New Year parade in San Francisco:::HEAVY rain forecast for parade Saturday night February 23rd.
After parade:::Because I used this paragraph prior to the event the gods may have been affected the outcome, minimizing the impact of the storm so my audience didn't take this warning the gods had to offer, creating doubt and reducing my credibility among the Chinese.
They're paving the way for the Apocalypse with a "leveling of the playing field" event.

Incidentally, they've shared that Asian's appearance, which one can construe as evil, has significance::::Come the day the Chinese "thin" the US population as they did when they executed their own opium den junkies you will see the gods offered this clue for a reason. Ironically, the Chinese may be the human race's last hope to save life on Planet Earth.
I am personally of the opinion that Asians are god's favored race. The conformity, the learned cultures all suggest superiority.
Perhaps they are used much like the germans, a people whom the gods offer a clue through their language:::As enforcer of decency.
Your abuse of resources is being bettered exponentially, maliciously (courtesy of respression of alternative technologies), and the result will be global calamity.
DO I believe this is a possibility? I think the "leveling of the playing field" that has ocurred in the late 20th century eliminated the possibility of using the Chinese to save us from ourselves.

You white people capitalizing in China are fucking crazy (just like the insane white men who date Japanese women). You fail to recognize the historical pattern and you will suffer for exploiting the Chinese:::
- Death Valley borax mines abused the Chinese and great misery befell them.
- The fisheries on Monterey's Cannery Row exploited the Chinese badly. Cannery Row remains a rebar-studded, uncompleted eyesore for decades as a clue.
The gods are preying on you and using the evil company you work for to accomplish this. Everytime you exploit the Chinese you are losing time and priveledge on the other planets.

Tibet has fallen prey to either corruption and/or the Big Lie of democracy, just as so many Vietnamese did decades ago.
You are the morbidly disfavored who fail to recognize god's favor when you see it:::The pinnicle of irony, ED pharmeceuticals::::People injest this poison which will cost them their health TO DEFEAT FAVOR GRANTED BY THE GODS, indifference towards sex the god's way of helping you avoid this damaging behavior.
Even on Earth resistance is an element which hurts your relationship with the gods, which is why they gods used this tactic so extensively in Africa.
Took the Dali Lama a week to speak about the riots ocurring in Tibet.
Being a clone host he is a tool of the gods used to prey on the disfavored Tibetans.
In addition to his extensive involvement in the West his implied support for the violence is a clue not to respect him.
Both Confucious and Buddah emerged about the same time. Consistant with the god's methodology one is good while the other is evil.
Consistant with Hardship.wav, expect the evil one to be associated with the ignorant disfavored, those who are closer to Damnation.
Try to use the Vietnamese example above because I understand they have respect issues. The San Jose fiasco the gods put on the national stage to embarass the Vietnamese was yet another clue suggesting this. Their borderline "pack mentaility" is another.
The extreme left supporting Tibetan efforts is another clue. These are the people used to eliminate decency in society since the 60s.
In their quest for irony just as the gods put the most hateful Italians and white supremicists in the Malcolm X clone host in the 60s so do they chose appropriately with this figure as well, for Tibetans are grossly disfavored.

The favor in Korea lies in the North. Association withe United States is ALWAYS a bad sign.
The Korean war ironically was a war against the South, designed to corrupt the disfavored of Korea. I suspect Vietnam may have been justified by the war against these favored peoples:::"You want to fight? Very well. Fight these people." The Vietnamese are morbidly disfavored who will fight to the bitter end of course (see below).



There have been many changes in India over the last 20+ years, most surrounding Westenization.
Too many still don't understand Westernization is a bad thing, a way the gods abuse the disfavored and level the playing field for all, ensuring their script is justified.
My advice is to keep fresh in your memory the old ways, for the gods illustrate that "new is evil" while "old is good".
Beware their corruptors. They placed them throughout society as America emerged and became strong. Don't let them weaken your moral fortitude. The gods placed them then use Artificial Intelligence to telepathically reinforce this corruption. This is their purpose. If you can identify these individuals you can avoid them and protect yourself from a corrupting environment.
Earth is where the gods test people. People from India are lucky enough to have received "extra time" to ascend before the gods employed all these corrupting elements. This means the old ways are still fresh in your mind. Never forget them because they can help you.

They share Hindus (and Muslim from India as well) are being corrupted by money.
Don't forget my example::::Infanticide justifies Chinese Westernization. Chinese Westernization justifies an American-style "short memory span".
The Chinese and Asians knew who their enemy was. Thousands of years of warmongering engrained the Japanese as enemies of peace-loving people. However, with the advent of Westernization the gods now are corrupting the Asians, ironically using the Japanese as role models in the process.
They are becoming corrupted. They've suggested Indians are being corrupted with money in this new era. The result will be simmilar American-style abuses upon the disfavored.
Between the two countries they make up half of Earth’s population. The gods are preparing for a full-blown Apocalypse event.

Think about the changes that have ocurred in India in the last 20 years. Better understanding the destructive changes the gods implimented can help you avoid danger.

ANY GROUP WHICH EMBRACES PATERNALISTIC SUERIORITY IS GROSSLY DISFAVORED::::
1. Italians
2. Latinos
3. Muslims
4. Mormons
5. Japanese
6. The Southern man & rednecks
7.
8. Other Catholic:::Irish, Philipino, Vietnamese?? Catholic women are masculinized.
Note the incredible wealth of some of these groups. The gods are using them as corruptors.


The gods use their tools to attack the Southern man, be it alcohol, the celebration of smoking, the complete devotion to guns and resistance, and their adoration of speed and horsepower. "There's all kinds of stuff." Paternalistic superiority. Celebration of the Prohibition era/illegal bootlegging as culture. The masculinization of women. Celebration of "Stars and Bars". Their perpetual music genre. Carnivoristic preferences. The celebration of infidelity. Their head-strong nature.
The gods used the 1980s televangelist incidents to promote godlessness among these people, a blow they couldn't afford to take.
Reality check:::The gods have it out for you. At least I hope this breaks that ice and helps you understand the task before you. You should be very alarmed that the gods have chose to employ such extensive use of temptation in an otherwise rural region.
I suspect your numbers won't be good due to your grave disfavor.
The more god-fearing you are, the more religious you are about attending service, the more modest and humble and the recognition that women are your superior will all go a LONG WAY towards the gods finding mercy enough to allow help.


The Spainish were Catholic like the Italians and Irish yet I don't recall them experiencing the same clues from the gods, clues warning people of their gross disfavor (stereotypes and discrimination).
Due to Spain's phenominal destruction in Latin America with conquistadors and missionary work I wonder if the gods continually use this to corrupt the Spanish to this day? They certainly do with Latinos.
Spain did pay for Columbus, right? Expect a connection. This is a Church issue rather than an Italian issue of course.
The gods employ their "middle management" tactic, as we all witness. Expect their positioning to continue into the past::::
I've mentioned before the "seamless" transistion between Cleopatra and Julius Ceasar. Perhaps they position this as if there was contact with Pharroh and they gave management duties to Egypt, who went on to use Italy, the Catholic Church, etc. in the course of their management.
Of course none of this is true, but it was utilized extensively during the 20th century. They may continue witrh this scapegoatting, "middle management" positioning::::Milky Way quadrant, Milky Way, universal quadrant, universal. They are effective tactics, ensuring people do not become god-fearing.
Sadly, consistant with the deterioration of society, necessary for justification, today people KNOW the gods run the show, and illustrating the evil they employ on the disfavored corrupts people very badly. They think god is evil, and they behave consistant with that belief. Now we have a planet on a collision course with the Apocalypse, and the gods set it all up perfectly that now it is justified.


Cartoon in editorial ridiculing W, standing in front of a depiction of a god of fertility, for bringing his message of abstenence to a hypersexual people.
Black people are their own worst enemy. Their goodies have gotten them into big trouble.
They've shared they got something special and they threw it away. Expect this focus on their goodies to have intiated this change, however long ago.
Consistant with their methodology, perhaps there is some truth to this "You're really #1." positioning they sell to blacks. Once.

The Boot has fucked you twice, once by destroying life in the 20th century, another by costing you the Final Prophet:::The gods got their tools into position then maintain their positioning telepathically with Artificial Intelligence.
The Boot fucked blacks twice, once with the murder and destruction of these supposed “Roman enemies”, another with the “thugification” of blacks, resulting in this degenerate black popular culture/society.
I fear the gods intend to use the enemy of peace-loving Asian people, the Japanese, to inflict misery twice:::Once historically, as the warmongers the Japanese have historically been and then once again as role models, held up as the ideal to Asians, corrupted by Westernization and capitalism. The gods punish Asians for embracing Westernization/capitalism by instructing Artificial Intelligence to use the wealthy Japanese as role models for "profitable" behavior.
This is the era of telepathic abuse. Whereas before these groups "got their hands dirty" now the gods use their positioning in place to finish the job off::::::
The gods create preferences/request black people embrace the Italian "thug life".
The gods telepathically execute the elements of this theater, ensuring people aren't receptive to my message. Much as we see with Sigmund Freud's psychoanalysis the gods will enforce their Manifest Destiny positiong as well.

Black popular culture has embraced the charecteristics of their victimizers:::The "thug life".
"Drive-by shootings" origins are Italian.
The gods will reincarnate sexist men as pigs.

I've mentioned that due to their involvement ("OldSchool", hurricane, etc) that blacks are "owed" in the context of this Situation.
They floated the possibility due to the sickness we witness in that community and to provide closuer for this obligation they gave them Katrina and called it even.
Planet Reverse Positioning.


Show on gangland drug sales.
The gods orchistrate this whole underworld, just as they did with the Italians early in the 20th century.
The gods convince Oakland pimps that chilldhood prostitution is OK - Learn from the lies they tell other groups!!!

Blackss signed on to this "equality" line of shit they sold to people since the 60s. The gods even referred to in the 19th century:::"2/5ths of a person.".
Blacks gotta pray just to catch up to white people!!! Equality is a lie. This what the gods meant when they made the 1980 telepathic announcement::::"Blacks have to try harder and do better than everybody else."


The difference between life in Europe vs the United States is similar to life in the suburbs vs the ghetto:::
Both the US and the ghetto have increased temptations, opportunities for people to hurt themselves and the result is both are far less decent.
The United States is less decent because this is where the gods sent the disfavored, the rejects from Europe, and those foolish enough to comply and leave on request.

25 years ago they made a telepathic announcement:::::"Black people have to try harder, do better than everybody else." This means no parties, no drinking, no drugs, no sex.

Just like Malcolm X & the Black Panthers, the Che Guevara event happened to prey upon Latinos.
Among others.


Latino homosexual explosion.
Like the NewWorld Catholic Philipinos. Look for it.
They may play it like they do blacks, but I don't think I'd take great comfort in this.

You need to understand the subtle, inferred way the gods communicate to people and begin to trust it::::::
The tiger killed the Latino. Now you understand where the gods hold Latinos in their heirarchy.
And expect both Muslims AND Hindus to be ranked above the unrespectable Catholics, incidentally.
Is this a clue to try to help them understand the gods hold them in such low regard? Is this a clue to Latinos to NOT fall into the same mindset which they sold to blacks? Of course ignorant blacks think they're great. Quite the opposite it true:::The Black Panthers are part of that "upper incisor of The Beast" clue, designed for ripping and tearing flesh.
Don't be surprised if they are offering foreshadowing with this event. They may be sharing that Latinos will be very poorly represented while Hindus/Indian Muslims will take a painful hit.
Perhaps it means if Latinos don't ascend before the Apocalypse they won't be going.

I made the zoo a winter wonderland. I'd trust the relevance here.
They parked Wilma on top of the southwest part of Cozumel FOR TWO FULL DAYS for the same reason, but with far more destructive results.

Fucking indecent horse racing commericals. They disappeared but now they're back.
I kinda like the one where she smacks him after seeing the "Misty" tattoo. "Some Latinos are getting in trouble because of that." Fantasizing about how they'd beat her half to death if it were them???
Don't forget::::The gods will reincarnate sexist men as pigs. Expect they have something extra special for then men who get violent with women.

Cuban-Castro tension::::You don't want to hear what I have to say.
Either you're sell-out whores doing what you're told like other morbidly disfavored or the god's positioning has been VERY effective on you. Explanation::::
1. You are inferior to your people in the motherland. By very nature of your being in the United States this is true:::The family members with favor remained in Cuba. The gods sent each country's rejects to America then created an enviornment which preys upon them.
2. I think the gods forced Cuban communism to send a clue to the disfavored of the United States. I believe Cubans are NOT FAVORED ENOUGH TO BE COMMUNISTS and that's why the gods employed compensatory elements to make you pay for something you are not worthy of:::
a. Any culture with baseball is grossly disfavored.
b. Music is revelry. Earth is where the gods test people. Parties hurt you.
Salsa may be the absolute greatest music form on Planet Earth, and it has served not only as a distraction but an enormous source of pride, pride detrimental to a good relationship with the gods.
I have other comments about communism and its implications below. Don't forget::::The gods will reincarnate sexist men as pigs. Expect they have something extra special for then men who get violent with women.

If you lived in a communisitic state your 10 year old son wouldn't be able to see pornographic images on the internet. The government would have filters in place to protect the people from this damaging behavior.
Much like alcoholism, much like homosexuality the gods punish the people with magic.
These desires you have are going to keep you out. I recommend you begin working on your problems, for if you don't and are among those who are invited to Planet (Temptation) Manifest Destiny it will be very difficult, for life is fueled by magic up there, and if you don't think right you won't be staying for long.

Dreamcatchers. Wisdom from Native Americans.
Dreams are a bad thing. They shared this with me right before they began to increase the number of my dreams. I suspect they used this as an example that my new, vivid dreams are punishment.
I suspect the gods consider dreams bad because the alternative is an awakened experience.
Girls granted favor will receive their experience awake. Boys (and disfavored girls) will experience the gods imparting wisdom while asleep, subject to the computer making these individuals forget, as happens so frequently after dreams.

Native Americans have a problem with paternalistic superiority, among other things:::
1. NO DOMESTICABLE ANIMALS
2. Essentially eliminated from the face of the Earth
3. Warmongering tribes.
I wonder what their intent with dreamcatchers was? Was it gender non-specific??? Or was this symbol's intent specifically for the females among a disfavored peoples whose females had a problem catching their favor???


The Jews are Mediterreanean. This means they are fucked.
I don't think the Jews are the most favored of Meditereaneans. I think they just have the best religion.
Jews are HIGHLY corruptable by money. The 20th century proves this. Their role in promoting social poison in the 60s indicts them. Also I think the gods sent this clue in the movie The Ten Commandments.
Hairy is a bad sign. They say big nose is a bad sign. Both are appearance issues, perhaps can be interpreted as the look of evil upon their face.
So many Meditereanean charecteristics are clues helping people understand to avoid them, similar to the geographical clues of The Boot and the Scandanavian penis.

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You need to understand that there is a price to be paid for your cooperation within the context of the god's positioning.
They instill tactics EVERYWHERE ensuring a difficult testing procedure, for the reward is great. Signing on to this lie IS a tactic, and it will ensure a percentage of people fail. "Intentional foreclosure" and telling people it is acceptable to steal are two examples of temptations which will cause your Damnation.
Of those who succeed the gods STILL require you to behave appropriately. If you fall prey to the temptations of Planet Manifest Destiny you too will ultimately perish.
Nobody is going to "lead you out". This is bullshit Book of Revelations Christianity positioning. Because this is their positioning this event WILL occur, but only among a pre-selected group, designed for theatrical purposes only.
I won't lead anyone out. This is not what I teach. You all are responsible for your own relationship with the gods, and failure to take responsibility will result in your exclusion.

The gods want to play both sides of the coin.
It is very important the gods maintain this perception of "middle management", for if people knew management was just the gods and their computer they would become very frightened considering the carnage and what it says about their plans, and this fear would help them to think correctly.
They would be on the "fast-track" to salvation.
The gods created this environment of CEOs, kings and democracy specifically to defeat this and work very hard to maintain it.
People teetering on Damnation think god is evil and believe evil is the way. This is called "segmentation"::::They don't see the importance of temptation nor the god's role or methodology in punishment::::Ironically the gods DON'T punish evil for their wickedness. These people are not wanted and the gods don't want them to receive the feedback punishment would provide.
I hope people in Enterprise, Alabama have become "god-fearing", experiencing the wrath of god firsthand. Sadly, the gods will use tactics to ensure they don't become god-fearing, telling many of them that because the tornado was because of me they "earned" and now I have to "bring them up"::::
Because the gods scapegoat me they think I owe them all. As a result this experience goes wasted.
There are other tactics the gods use, for example telling parents their dead soldiers "ascended", "were clones", etc. All are desiogned as a tactic, ensuring they do not become god-fearing.
The gods lie freely. They will say anthing in the context of temptation. If people in Enterprise understood this they would be more likely to overcome this temptation and become god-fearing. Sadly most believe what they are told and this precious opportunity will pass without effect.
Temptation is very important. "Heaven" is an exclusive place and you can't get in for free.

The gods will use their tools to create the perception of evil rewarded then corrupt the disfavored with it.
It's important that you differentiate between your own thoughts and when the computer thinks through you.

The god's computer conducts this theater. In err you do what they tell you. So does president, CEO/BOD, Italian gangsters. Sadly the gods will turn around and use this as a corruptor:::"CEO does everything he's told and he has BILLIONS!!!"
If one of these clone host tools "comes around", realizes they made a mistake and finally musters the courage to tell the gods "No." they will get that person out and put in somebody who will tell them "Yes.". The individual who told them "No." has successfully navigated temptation. Unfortunately, punishment can be a temptation via deterrent, and the gods may choose to employ this tactic to test the candidate in their next placement.
This is a constantly deteriorating enviornment. This is one reason why they waited to reincarnate so many clone hosts from the 20th century:::
1. To use the morbidly disfavored to accomplish these important goals in this century and
2. In this abjectly corrupt, godless environement few have a real chance.
They corrupted Italians with 1906 then told these Italians it was the godfather ordering them to plan WWII, kill blacks, corrupt and destroy society. Now people know better (opening the door to other types of corruption:::Evil god), but these Italians experienced an "early cut-off" and got their hands very dirty because of it, illustrating their grave disfavor.
Before WorldWarII began the gods sold many people on clone hosting, not just Italians. This would represent a "cut-off" for the non-Italians sold on "earning" and initiated into clone hosting, for clone hosting gives the gods the freedom to place at their discretion. Many non-Italians were placed into these Italian bodies to continue the destruction of society in the 20th century, for the gods couldn't justify their involvement within the context of Manifest Destiny positioning otrherwise, Manifest Destiny being the New Roman Empire.
There is a big difference when clone hosts are evil, people who are placed into bodies by god, and when real people engage in evil. Of course the gods can minimize this culpability they accept by gaining consent prior to placement.


The gods use these preditor clone hosts tools to manage their justification and culpability::::
These aren't even real people. They abandoned their bodies, losing their identies in the process, a consequence of succumbing to this temptation.
They're just entities, brains "floating" around out there until the gods chose to place them into a body. They are sub-human, second-class citizens, inferior individuals, and should be beneath ALL reals.
These families were sold on clone hosting and got out prior to World War II. Their grandfathers and family who entered clone hosting were reals. But abandoning their bodies for this temptation carries consequences, and the loss of identity is one.
When these clone hosts have children they are not real people. As such they won't ever ascend because there was nobody associated with these bodies. There was a first placement, someone who may have been a primary (time) placement, but this is not relevant. A series of individuals were routed through that body, and after a few placements even they forget where they were, god's clue to these individuals that "earning" is a lie, since they can't remember where they were placed.
People who agree to abandon their bodies and become evil continue to incurr not only from their direct actions as clone hosts but also from the evil their original body (blood line) inflicts onothers. This is a matter of preparation, for if they sell them on "earning" before they depart the gods are justified in using these original bodies in the context of evil, ensuring they pay twice, ironically.

There is a difference between these clone hosts, so many of which abandoned their bodies in the 30s out of desperation (women) or thinking they were "earning" (men), and when the gods take liberties upon the disfavored, not placing a brain in a child until later for stategic purpose. This served as an intense corruptor for those disfavored people. The frequency is higher among the most disfavored among us (Italian, Irish, black, Latino, etc) than people that are not nearly as disfavored.
Think of it in terms of the Black War I::::The gods developed these bodies without brains specifically because they had preditory Italian trash from the mid 20th century whom they wanted to employ poetic justice upon. Becasuse of the indecency of the blacks involved the gods felt taking the liberty was justified. The result was the child that never was.

The gods get their clone host tools into place and tell them what to do, just like all you, in err. But these are not real people and their mistakes don't matter as much. They're not staying for long anyways.
Clone hosts aren't even real people. They abandoned their bodies, losing their identity in the process, a consequence of succumbing to this temptation.
They're just entities, brains "floating" around out there until the gods chose to place them into a body. They are sub-human, second-class citizens, inferior individuals, and should be beneath ALL reals.
There is a difference between these clone hosts, so many of which abandoned their bodies in the 30s out of desperation (women) or thinking they were "earning" (men), and when the gods take liberties upon the disfavored, not placing a brain in a child until later for stategic purpose. This served as an intense corruptor for those disfavored people. The frequency is higher among the most disfavored among us (Italian, Irish, black, Latino, etc) than people that are not nearly as disfavored.
Think of it in terms of the Black War I::::The gods developed these bodies without brains specifically because they had preditory Italian trash from the mid 20th century whom they wanted to employ poetic justice upon. Becasuse of the indecency of the blacks involved the gods felt taking the liberty was justified. The result was the child that never was.
Don't let them role play this Manifest Destiny theater to you anymore. Just as the Italians who planned WorldWarII thought they were telepathically taking orders from the "godfather", so do the CEOs, kings/presidents and society's elite do as their told and "take orders".
Artificial Intelligence orchestrates this entire environment.
I personally believe the gods should not be utilize clone hosting. I think they should employ temptation exclusively. Example:::::When people incurr sufficient evil, typically males in their early 20s, they die. There would be young men dropping dead everywhere. In addition this could serve as an effective clue to the others, reminding them to be good.
AIDS changed Africa. We will never see AIDS among blacks in the United States because of it.
We'll never see this. The gods would never allow such an obvious clue to be sent. WHEN the gods DID employ this tactic expect they beemed the brain OUT, kind of a "reverse clone hosting". A clue may be when a normally "active" individual falls into a quiet pattern.
How often do they use this as opposed to "variability", ie clone hosting someone good in the body to justify??? "There's a lot of Italians who are no longer with us." That often.
The gods computer conducts this theater. In err you all do what they tell you. So does president, CEO/BOD, Italian gangsters.
They corrupted Italians with 1906 then told these Italians it was the godfather ordering them to plan WWII, kill blacks, cvorrupt and destroy society. Now people know better (opening the door to other types of corruption), but these Italians experienced an "early cut-off" and got their hands very dirty because of it, illustrating their grave disfavor.
Before WorldWarII began the gods sold many people on clone hosting, not just Italians. This would represent a "cut-off" for the non-Italians sold on "earning" and initiated into clone hosting, for now the gods had the freedom to place at their discretion. Many non-Italians were placed into these Italian bodies to continue the destruction of society in the 20th century, for the gods couldn't justify their involvement within the context of Manifest Destiny positioning otrherwise.

The gods will create the perception of evil rewarded by managing good and evil within their clone host tools then corrupt the disfavored with it.

The following is an OUTSTANDING example of reverse positioning::::::
The gods used this “Manifest Destiny” positioning to create a new reality, minimizing the good things about the old world and emphisizing the bad things. Wine is one such an example.
Wine is positioned to be a blessing from the gods, a fruitful bounty as a reward to a favored people. The reality is quite the opposite.
The Mediterreanean region is grossly disfavored:::This IS the region targeted by the gods for the Noah’s Flood event (Straight of Gibralter broke through inundating the basin and killing untold millions).
There was a time, not so long ago, when no self-respecting woman would EVER take a drink. Alcohol is a masculinizer, a tool used to abuse the disfavored, and cultures which fuck you for affecting my writing CHEATER. This is MY TIME PIGS PIGS PIGS PIGS PIGS!!!
cultures which include women in the revelry are grossly disfavored.

The way the gods changed and maintain this environment suggests they want people pacified, comfortable with this system, perpetually thinking wrong.
What they don't know won't hurt them.
This is why they worked so hard to defeat this event. If people were to come around, realize they've been corrupted and began to behave appropriately this would defeat all their work over the last century and more. With Artificial Intelligence they could maintain control, affect my delivery, utilize other tactics, ensuring they could dispatch the majority of the audience.
If you behaved appropriately you would realize more sucess than you do::::
There are churches and places of worship everywhere for good reason::::The gods hae expectations of the people.

The disfavored of California are always inflicted with abuse first:::
1. Casual sex of the hippie "free love" movement.
2. Methenfetamine scourge in California started roughly in early 80s. It took another 15 years for it to spread to middle America.
3. They've always drawn disfavored whom they dumped into homosexuality to California, but now homosexuality has become "popular" in the heartland.
4. Pornography
5. Hells Angels
6. "Intentional foreclosure"::::::Those in Iraq aren't the only considered "acceptable losses" during the Bush administration:::This irresponsible behavior will necessarily cost them their chance to go
- Hollywood
- music
- television
- open immigration, inflicting the scourge of Ameican bastardization upon purebloods.
- gay rights/gay acceptance
- "sexual freedom"
- Black Panthers
- Gangster rap
- "Medical marijuana"
- Education
A clue education is (highly deceptive) reverse positioning:::California's superior higher education system, encompassing dozens of PUBLIC universities able to accomodate willing residents.
Ecducation is an "open door" allowing the gods to abuse the disfavored in many ways::::
1. The godlessness that follows education, ironically.
2. The inaccuracy and irrelevancy of the material being learned.
3. The great wealth that is charecterisitc of a highly educated population.
Now that godlessness (and other goals) have been achieved using this platform that is California they have "let it go" and now California ranks among the worst in the nation.
Like aging, sleep is behavior forced upon us.
News story on sleep research, a good example of how education is preditory, deceptive.
People aren't fresher or sharper because of good sleep. The gods control all this.
Actually, they've mentioned that people with favor don't have to sleep and, like aging, sleep is behavior forced upon us.
This is today's research. Expect this applies to early research as well.
Incidentally, the gods create male superiority in the fields of computers, science and math for preditory reason.
I know this sucks but it is true. You all recognize the "big lie" that is Sigmund Freud's psychoananysis. Let that issue be your launching pad into the exploration of this topic.

"(Blah)." The gods created some ugly incidents to justify California's 1987 legislation outlawing corporal punishment, just as they forced poor matches to justify the elimination of matchmaking. And now instead of being matched at age 14 your daughter loses her virginity behind the bleachers at age 12.
The deterioration of quality of life has progressed into indecency, allowing the gods to soon justify ending on Planet Earth.

Back in the 80s they used their tools within society to ridicule away corporal punishment of children.
Corporal punishment is a very important learning expereince for children because it instills the understanding of fear at a very tender age. These experiences can help these individuals think correctly, make good decisions and have a good relationship with the gods.
Without fear people think they are friends, partners, earning with each act of evil. They don't view the gods or their relationship with them appropriately.
They manufactured ugly examples, disfavored children were killed and the gods used these examples in conjunction with their tools within society to eliminate this benefit to the people. It is yet another example of how they break down beneficial institutions within society, a "leveling the playing field" event, important to justify their inevitable behavior come Judgement Day.
California ruling against homeschooling, 3.14.08.
Here we go again.

This is an environment that minimzes the value of the role of women, excludes them and makes them feel as if they don't belong.
Very much like the gods have done for children.
This is an enviornment that forces women to accept this exclusionary enviornment. However there IS an alternative::::Assimilate through a process of masculinization.
The gods instruct AI to make the girls experience this in hope they feel uncomfortable and seek more. Unfortunately the legacy of corruption is firmly in place and too many of those cast into damnation won't be returning.

Women who are "tough" have been masculinized and their chances have been seriously degredated because of it. The gods sought to increase these numbers and used their media to promote this type of charecter, a pathology which was subsequently forced upon people with Artificial Intelligence. They are doing it again, perhaps in preparation for the next revelry cycle right around the corner, with all this high-profile tabloid celebrity "bad girl" behavior.
Male children should be chastized VERY HARD for engaging their sisters or ANY member of the opposite sex, either verbally or physically.

Children are discounted in society. This is nothing new, for adults have always minimized the wisdom of children due to Earthly norms.
The gods corrupt the people as they age, use trust-building tactics and soon these adults view the children as ignorant, yet to understand the god's system. Quite the opposite it true ironically:::
The wisdom the gods impart to children, either through their personalities or (religious-based) educational pursuits, are the gods sharing the truth with their most favored people.
Another clue suggesting the superiority of children::::
1. Children won't have anything to do with these kind of people, be it televangelists, (most) preachers or priests.
2. Baseball bores kids to death.
3. TV sports are tiresome to children.
All these things are evil. The religious men represent Earthly religions, and there is something wrong with all of them. This certainly applies to Christianity, due to the preditory nature of this religion.
I would ALWAYS defer to the children. I would ALWAYS trust the children's behavior in these regards, for their innocence reflects the image of the gods.

News story on sleep research, a good example of how education is preditory, deceptive.
People aren't fresher or sharper because of good sleep. The gods control all this.
Actually, they've mentioned that people with favor don't have to sleep and, like aging, sleep is behavior forced upon us.
This is today's research. Expect this applies to early research as well.
Incidentally, the gods create male superiority in the fields of computers, science and math for preditory reason.
Education has costed more children their chance to go as a child of the gods, pure of heart and body, because it preoccupied their time:::::Between school, activities and TV/videogames/leisure the children are consumed and not receptive to god's calling.

People need to understand the 20th century changes are new. Life remained essentially unchanged for a very long time.
I realize they are making promises to most of you about Planet Manifest Destiny, telling you everyone will go. This is not true. It is a tactic. Many/most of you may go, but if you don’t behave appropriately I believe the majority will begin dropping like flies in a couple hundred years.
Planet Manifest Destiny is a “magic”-fueled environment:::The food is better, the sex is better, life is “enhanced” with magic.
The gods only use their power to hurt you:::If they peaked you euphorically for homosexuality you’d be out sodomizing each other. If they peaked you for drugs you’d be an alcoholic or a junkie.
“Magic” is only used to hurt you, and these "magic"-fueled experiences on Planet Manifest Destiny will be no different.
Too many whites look at blacks and write them off:::”They’re fucked.”, “They’re finished.”, “Who cares, fuck them.”. There is much you can learn from observing how the gods deal with morbidly disfavored groups like this. For example:::The gods LOVE to sell blacks on sex. Black popular culture, within their social groups, etc, sex is pushed like a drug. THIS IS A CLUE TO THE DISFAVORED THAT SEX IS BAD FOR YOU, as is everything the gods “sell” to the black community in popular culture (fashion, jewelry, “cool”, individuality, etc).
THE GODS DON’T RESPECT SEX AND THEREFORE INFLICT HYPERSEXUALITY UPON THE MOST MORBIDLY DISFAVORED, Italians and blacks. Food is similar. I’d refer you to the nature of Jewish food. The gods enhanced temptation with the diversification of foodstuffs in the 20th century. There are many elements at work here besides sex and food.
If you don’t understand these temptations, if you aren’t thinking correctly when you arrive on Planet Manifest Destiny you will succumb to this temptation-ridden environment and you too will be gone in a couple hundred years. Example::::Men with drinking problems are peaked euphorically for alcohol. If they don't understand this dynamic of their disfavor, if they're not working on fixing their problems once they experience life up there they will experience this enviornment and never have a real chance again, for the objects of their disfavor (sex, food, alcohol) are far better than what the gods offer on Earth AND enhanced with "magic".
Planet Manifest Destiny is not the goal, as so many of you believe. It is distraction, temptation, punishment, tactic, one that is going to ensure over 95% of candidates fail.
The gods taught you that temptation would be used to test you. You need to understand good from evil, right from wrong, decent from the indecent. If so you’d recognize the indecency and destructive nature of “magic”.
The reality you don't see.wav:::You need to address your disfavor and the "magic" they punish you with or you'll never get off Planet Manifest Destiny.

If god tells you to stop going to church you should be very afraid. This means you have fallen into great disfavor and you are no longer welcome.
Keep going to church. Children need the moral compass this education gives them.

Don't forget:::Europe is shaped like a sheep, symbolic for slaughter.
There is great unrespectability among the Europeans. The concept of "savior" within Christianity is likley just a symptom.

Good food is much like good music to a culture:::Distraction and revelry, a way to minimize the number of people who ascend.
This is nicely reflected in traditional Jewish foods.

Another example Italians are grossly disfavored are their foodstuffs::::
Tomatos are highly acidic and provides an "open door" for the gods to inflict upon those whom they so chose. Pasta is very starchy and fattening.
Italian food creates fat people with stomach problems. Expect Etruscan strongholds (Rome) to be those whom traditionally maintained this type of diet.
They gods smoothly translated this food into the American culinary landscape, for they have inflicted all the worst disfavored pureblood motherlands have to offer on the land of the disfavored mongrol reject castoffs (rot-gut food,.Celtic "holiday" of Halloween, etc).

Individuality is a scourge upon the people, an advent seen in recent decades, popularized when the gods implimented their greatest offensive on the disfavored:::::::::The 1960s.
It may be the worst offensive ever employed on the disfavored, for this platform in the SanFranciscoBayArea spread this cancer globally, a "leveling of the playing field" event which further the gods efforts to justify ending on Planet Earth.
Asians are the most favored race of people on Planet Earth::::Their wonderfully rich cultures helped the people understand and pursue lives highly respected by the gods. Conformity is a big theme among Asian cultures.

English Monarchy.
The best thing that could have happened for England would have been if the thrown wielded its power and violently struck down groups that got out of line, punks for example. It would have served as a wonderufl example to the others, and the net result from succeeding thrones behaving in this manner would be a higher ascention rate than what was realized.
This is what Saddam Hussein did. He dealt with "acceptable losses" and kept the peace. Disfavoreds who witnessed this behavior would become afraid, crucial to a good relationship with the gods.
And that's why they used the United States to eliminate this benefit to the disfavored. And no, as citizens of the United States you didn't "earn" off this event. Quite the opposite in fact.

Many monarchies of centuries ago ruled with an iron fist. People were afraid and hence thought appropriately. This fear was conducive to a good relationship with the gods because it helped people make good decisions.
Now in this era of "freedom" in the United States there is NO FEAR, proudly displayed on the back of people's vehicles, and people fall prey to the numberous tactics employed to disceive and mislead them.
This "freedom" is the goal when the gods use this platform that is the United States to spread democracy around the globe, similar to how they use California as a platform to spread social and other poisons domestically (pornography, Hells Angels, etc.).
The gods are the king with the iron fist in the sky.

"Some people think they're earning off illegal immigration." To be preditory at this level of knowledge will get them hurt. Bad::::Such as we witnessed in the 60s, for many of those participants knew the truth and understood this decade represented a MAJOR deterioration of society.
It's another of the god's Big Lies:::Sigmund Freud's psychoanalysis, democracy, Christianity.
The social degredation since the 60s is a clue liberalism is a cancer designed to continue the destruction of the disfavored's quality of life.
There were a few issues which arose that were positives (don't need a man (sex hurts you), vegitarianism) but the French's "Age of Enlightenment" illustrates environmental appreciation is not new. In the aftermath of the counter-cultural social degredation the gods subsequently fractured this issue by creating damaging movements within the context of enviornmentalism.
Beware the promoters of indecency and/or obsenity. This is clue, a warning to the people.
"The Boot" has fucked you twice:::They ruined the quality of life of Planet Earth, ensuring your damnation because of your newly-inflicted indecency, and the god's role playing of the New Roman Empire's Manifest Destiny positioning has costed you the Final Prophet.

Inflation is artificial. The gods control pricing and valuation of securities::::Much as we witness with the crash of the dollar so could we witness this behavior within other dynamics of the economy, paving the way for justification.
The economic abandonment by their clone host tools is a very real possibility. The gods can easily "reassign" them, placing them into the economy which they played a part in destroying, ironically.
Consistant with their methodology the gods will bring it all to a head simultaneously. We very well may witness this possible Chinese invasion in the aftermath.

"Instant gratification" is a tactic the gods instilled about 25 years ago. Now they use it, ensuring a certain percentage of disfavored don't have the patience necessary to pursue the path, fix their problems and instead give up, continuing with their corrupted behavior.

There are so many clues the gods favor females over males:::
- Girls kind, considerate. Boys celebrate violence.
- Males sent off to die in war
- Males locked up in prisons
- Males inflicted with addiction and alcoholism (prior to masculinization of women)
- Males (and blacks) celebrate "cool" and sex; similarities a clue which demands attention
- Males sold on empowering elements, such as guns, horsepower, strength issues, hurting their ability to have a good relationship with the gods.
- Males are indecent while the females are the promoters of decency
- Females are better people than males
Historically the role of females was as enforcers of decency. Men have god's disfavor and enagage in behavior damaging to themselves and their families. Women who adhered to this crucial role helped the men understand and avoid inappropriate behavior while enhancing decency in their domestic environment. These women understand they sacrifice to help the disfavored:::They are like Jews, scattered throughout Europe to help the misled Christians.
Many disfavored groups embrace "paternalistic superiority", believing the men are "entitled"::::;If Italian women tried to enforce decency the men beat and raped them.
The gods subsequently used this Italian charecterisitic to corrupt other morbidly disfavored groups, legitimizing this and other associated behavior.

What the gods tell you directly is the lie:::You must inferr the truth from the subtle clues they offer. Due to their favor the gods will bestow wisdom upon the females. My advice is listen intently, because the gods will offer wisdom to you through your women.
Alcohol has always been a way of hurting the men, making them less than decent.
Women traditionally have been the enforcers of decency within the family unit and used their motivation to help men behave appropriately; due to their disfavor men's indecency has negatively impacted not only the family but the community as well.
Cultures which offer wine have women who consume wine, and the result is an indecent society. Combine this with Italian male's demand for sexual without the consideration of decency and you have masculinized women defining a morbidly disfavored society.
Anyone involved in the wine industry has no empathy for either the disfavored of the Mediterreanean basin or women, disregarding the superior gender. If they understand this as the goal and are sold on "earning" they will be punished very harshly.

Any tactic/temptation that is targetted to males is particularly preditory.
This entire society is geared towards males for a reason::Because the gods hold the males in disfavor and want them distracted by all the trappings this society has to offer, ensuring they fail.
Girl's toys (dolls) are constructive, foster a nurturing and caregiving dynamic which helps them remain uncorrupted. When pre-pubescent girls are subject to distraction they fall prey to male temptations (early sexualization a clue they are not welcome). Stories, romance novels, tabloids all target women, not girls.
There are far fewer distractions targetted to girls because the gods favor females and want more to suceed, fix their problems with the gods and ascend off Planet Earth.
The distractions/temptations inflicted on males are endless:::
1. Weight training. Strength is exploited by the computer and hurts males ability to have a good relationship with the gods. They offer this activity in every prison system for a reason.
2. Gun ownership. Allows the gods to promote a sense of empowerment and control, destructive to a good relationship with the gods
3. Muscle cars. This movement began when it did for a reason:::It coincided with the MORBID SOCIAL DEGREDATION of the 60s and allowed the gods to inflict damage to a large number of demographics, even those sheltered in the heartland of america. We have other examples like this as well (racing, ).

Males are the disfavored gender. Their sexual drive is punishment. It is artificial, just as the drive for homosexual contact or alcohol. The gods can use this tactic among males whom they don't like.
Clinton was different. Clinton was a hound. It may be intentional, preditory behavior designed to pave the way for the impeachment event during the crucial years leading up to 2000::::Something for everybody.
All things held equal if he was a real he'd be coming back as a pig. "He still may." Which one? During his hound years there were DOZENS!!! "We're not admitting that." Of course you're not.

Of course pig doesn't take much time to mature, giving the gods great freedom. Incidentally, this is one of the things that historically has made them so appealing to people AND A CLUE ILLUSTRATING THEIR CONSUMPTION AS TEMPTATION.
Pork is temptation, and the gods made it a very appealing proposition.
Kosher is not religious. It is practical dietary law bestowed.

"Intentional foreclosure":::::
Everything happens for a reason.
The gods LOVE justification. They want it in place to ensure their will is justified.
Intentional foreclosure MAY SUPPORT MY THEORY OF AN IMPENDING APOCALYPSE, for this intentional "preditation" upon corporate America via relinquishing of obligation is sufficient grounds for abandonment by Manifest Destiny come Judgement Day. Convieniently, the real estate market in California made the disfavored here "ground zero" for this exclusionarly event.
Expect other similar strategies to be employed throughout the marketplace::::"Would YOU buy that (returned) couch?"

Of couse when the gods hurt the disfavored there is "help" associated with the "back-hand", and using their tools to ruin my credibility ensured people wouldn’t be receptive and the gods wouldn't have to position a Manifest Destiny response. This allows the gods to string the disfavored along for years as well.
I believe they wanted to wait until 2006, when this thing really got going and the gods opened up to me, to contrast it with the 1906 event.

People get confused because the gods have successfully buried this Italian Manifest Destiny positioning. Now people think that era is over. In many cases they understand they're addressing the trillions-years-old computer, yet discount the god's positioning of Manifest Destiny.
Chinese piracy of movies and software ocurrs to justify their disposal come Judgement Day. This can be taken as a clue proving Manifest Destiny positioning. There are lots of examples like this throughout the world.
Just like Sigmund Freud's psychoananlysis, just like Christianity, Manifest Destiny is positioning that the gods intend to enforce. As a result the gods are able to hide behind this positioning and maintain the lie that is the "absentee Christian god" when it is them in fact doing it to you with their (clone host) tools in place.

They share that people don't believe this, people don't give it credibility now.
The bio-technology product AIDS was given to both those who died and survivors. The gods not only control who is affected but they can also can create it without that justification that is the actual bio-technology product, but as I said the god's offensives fuck everyone involved and this is a good example, for clients, employees, recipients and investors all will be punished for their evil.
Bio-technology is a good example of how the god's offensives fuck everyone involved::::The proprietor dishing out the bio-technology product to the employee, the receiver who's health is destroyed, the bio-technology employees who create the evil and the investors who capitalize off the phenominal returns. Because retirement plans are able to bury their many losers, many contrived to force the issue upon pension plans, these investments became very popular. Similarly, earlier in the 20th century the gods tested proprietors by creating problems where a bio-technology product's response was a legitimate temptation.

Republican's deficit spending illustrates they are preditory on the next generation, preditory on children. And to say the Republicans deem the children as "acceptable losses" says something morbid.
The environment in the 80s was one where the gods sucessfully used society to pit women against each other. Much of the music scene of the 80s was targetted to the women, contrasted to the male-dominated 70s music scene.
Consistant with the gods "20 year difference", where the most disfavored pay approximately 20 years before the less disfavored (gay male explosition 1970s vs. lesbian explosion 1990s, gay AIDS vs. African AIDS, end of revelry cycle movies, Soviet communism vs. Cuban/Chinese communism to come) so was the 1987 California legislation against corporal punishment a predicessor to what has ocurred this decade:::The revocation of female's "fear benefit"::::The gods granted girls an experience helping them to understand fear, showing them the right way to think.
To have such incidents associated with Republican administrations supports the claim that they find suceeding generations of females to be "acceptable losses" as well.
The Republicans are the party that make great progress towards the Apocalypse.
The females are those among us with favor, and as they become masculinized we experience a "leveling of the playing field", ultimately allowing the gods to justify ending on Planet Earth.


They said HW was a "traitor", evident with the airplane incident during WorldWarII. As we witnessed repeatedly in the 20th century, these incidents ocurr to establish a legacy and pave the way for a far more significant events in the future::::
If true this legacy would recurr in W's administration::::
Rebate checks on the way into and out of office are both bad signs.
Signing on to Iraq to eliminate Saddam and 4,000 Americans is another clue.
Don't be surprised if they have him sabotage some things on his way out, and since McCain is good it will (has) happen(ed) one way or the other::::
The whole economy issue came out of nowhere in February 2008. Consistant with the god's methodology, expect justification was utilized::::::
Of course the crashing dollar of the last few years has comeplled OPEC to value oil with the Euro instead of the dollar.
Don't forget:::The Reagan administration was charecterized with banking scandal too:::"Intentional foreclosure" constitutes justification sufficient for their exclusion::::
I realize this problem isn't just a California issue, but the "upside down" status of home owners makes California special, makes "intentional foreclosure" far more attractive to the morbidly disfavored, victims of the "platform" which was used to promote social poison in the 20th century.

Sounding like a goddamn blooming idiot when he speaks is a clue unlike any others. When Reagan spoke it sounded as if he "fuddled", a clue not to trust him.
"They're going to pay for 2004." Redneck states. And oh how they will pay:::
Recently they have stated that the Chinese are holding US paper. Some patriot W is, selling US debt to communists. Perhaps the invasion mentioned below will be a way to "redeem" these bonds after they've fallen into default.

Earlier they illustrated that there is a higher ocurrance of 1998 victims in the South, using the Clinton figure to prey on his own kind.
Perhaps part of the family legacy.
Considering the scripted real estate collapse in California, the "upside down" position and subsequent explositon in "intentional foreclosure", do the gods sell these rednecks on "eye for an eye" to some individuals, useful in building their confidence and ensuring absolute compliance, among other things?

Anytime the gods employ an offensive it fucks everyone involved:::If the early 20th century Clintons knew this was how the gods were going to use their clone hosts they are going to die for it.
Life is very much like you learned when you were a child::::The gods will punish evil for their wickedness. Temptation is used to test you, and these people failed.

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When the gods hurt people who tell them "No." it can be interpreted as a good sign, much as feedback normally is. Sadly, as the threat can be considered a deterent to proper behavior then so can avoidance of the actual punishment be considered temptation.
The gods won't punish rejection from the innocent. People have to become corrupted and engage in evil before the gods will wield their justice. But this punishment is feedback levied upon good people who do the wrong thing, not upon the undesirable evil. People who think correctly and are genuinely god-fearing are more likely to envoke god's mercy.
Among "reals" I don't expect the percentage to be as high as those who crossed the line from person to preditor, despite those ranks being filled with these "undesirables". I think the gods may want most if not all to pay if and when they finally "come around" and begin to behave appropriately. Understand this is not all-inclusive, for many of these tools remain in this state of corruption until the day the gods adjudicate their case (death, reincarnation a lesser life form, etc).
Unfortunately, the god's policy further reinforces evil behavior, for they are rarely if ever punished for their wickedness. Good people on the other hand are punished BECAUSE they are wanted and the gods are giving them feedback in hope they canlearn and begin to behave decent. Expect these events are made very visible, serving as a FABULOUS corruptor.
Consistant with this policy of not punishing evil because they are undesirable, the Chinese will be inflicted with Westernization immediately, while the socio-economically mature Japanese have retained a significant level of their culture. As reflected in "Benchmarks.wav", this will contribute to deterioration sufficient for the gods to utilize justification, allowing them to end on Planet Earth.
Another benchmark could be the age when they corrupt children. Granted this differs, but the mean (and median) are VERY important numbers, and when you graph them you will see a constant deterioration.

The gods manufacture "open doors" to justify creating problems in the lives of people who engage in behavior they shouldn't. Some of these "open doors" apply to all (a supermajority) of the people::::
- Democracy is used to create pathologies of empowerment and control.
- Materialism/greed generate problems with money, glorify overconsumption, etc.
Other "open doors" are specific to each individual::::People shouldn't be watching movies, TV, listening to music. When this ocurrs the gods use themes and topics presented therein and instruct Artificial Intelligence to create pathologies.
If you are particularly intelligent, strong or very good at an (competitive) activity they will instruct Artificial Intelligence to create an overconfidence that will hurt you.
Differentiate between your thoughts and when they push thoughts with the computer. Recognize when they are employing "magic":::Peaked euphoria is the fuel of dysfunction and can help you identify these "open doors" in your life.
Abandon your preoccupations and make this the only thing that matters in your life, for all other things in society are lies designed as temptation.
Focus on purity:::::Be pure of mind and body. Recognize the open doors in the media and how they are used to introduce impure thoughts and refrain.
The Amish in Pennsylvania are like the Jews were in Europe for centuries:::A clue to the disfavored who have been misled and are going the wrong way.
Your virginity may have bought you tens of thousands of years up there. My adivce to those who have made their mistake it:::STOP THE BLEEDING NOW!!!

Everybody can tell when they're being peaked euphorically, for it is quite easy to identify.
As young people get older and continue to make mistakes the gods apply personality-forming charecteristics, and people fail to differentiate between their own thoughts and when the gods are thinking through them. As a result they become abusive, abrasive, demonic, any number of negative personality characterisitcs, and then lie to them, tell them they're "earning".
This is designed to keep people going in the wrong direction for a lengthy period of time.
My adivce is look to the long term goal of fixing your problems and differentiating between your thoughts and when they're thinking through you but begin by addressing this issue of "peaked euphoria" right now.

This is a battle of good and evil:::I am good. The gods are evil.
Of course they'd look at is as they are good and WE are evil, corrupted and betraying our precious children.
They created the perception of "boss"/savior to keep people from the real purpose of this Siutation:::The Final Prophet.
They wanted me to willingly participate in this theater, and praying for my ability they whimsically repress with Artificial Intelligence would contribute to the concept of a good, absentee Christian god which they would use to corrupt the disfavored.
People think wrong and their behavior compells them to incurr evil because of it. You need to learn what I teach and impliment these changes into your lives.
In this deteriorating, godless enviornment testing people with temptation compelled people to "think wrong", corrupted by telepathic positioning and the wicked enviornment that exists today.
This is a battle of good and evil:::I am good and the gods are evil.
The gods view this quite the opposite::I am the evil one trying to help corrupt, godless sinners who fell for temptation wholesale, people who seek "something for nothing", a free ride. This is an insult to the gods which will be punished.

Look at it as if it is a ladder, for this is a sufficient analogy::
On the lowest rung is the corrupt souls who find violence acceptable (ALL MALES:::black, latino, Hells Angels, etc). A few rungs up the ladder are all the people who will be saved in the year of the Apocalypse (not all will be saved on the actual Judgement Day).
Every rung above this point represents people on planets other than Earth.
You people don’t even think right. If you don’t make these corrections you will die. They don’t want you, they lie to you to compell you to think/desire violence and they consider it temptation/not accepting blame, ensuring no culpability.
Read on. You need to read what I say, for understanding is your only hope. And if you know any “cholos” you should pass this on to them if you care anything for them.

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Churches and places of worship exist in every town FOR GOOD REASON::::THE GODS HAVE EXPECTATIONS!!! They DEMAND PROPER BEHAVIOR from the people. I recommend you examine this clue and give consideration to what expectations the gods have of the people.
I tell people to go back to church, even if the Catholic Church, because their children need that religious education.
They say some people are getting flashes, becoming concerned, beginning to give credibility to what I say. Do be surprised if these are people who experienced Bible study, went to CCD, had that religious education.
god-less people who never received this education laugh at me, typically will remain corrupted throughout their lives and are likely to end up The Damned.
Don't be a statistic.
Churches and places of worship exist in every town FOR GOOD REASON::::THE GODS HAVE EXPECTATIONS!!! They DEMAND PROPER BEHAVIOR from the people. I recommend you examine this clue and give consideration to what expectations the gods have of the people.

HOW TO PRAY:::
1. I'm sorry for what I've done wrong.
2. I don't want to make any more mistakes.
3. I want to fix my problems.
4. Please don't hurt me.

Because of their innocence, because of their purity children are god's favored people. What children learn (must be good if you want to go to heaven) is the truth. What you learned as children was the gods imparting wisdom to you, quite the opposite of what corrupt adults believe.
This is a tactic because many adults will continue to ridicule this idea, unable to believe the children would be graced with god's wisdom, especially while they are being told just the opposite and being corrupted into Damnation.
Much like the tactic of instilling "instant gratification" in society so was the discounting of children an effective tactic.
Consistant with this preference for innocence and purity, you don't want to continue reading. You want to learn JUST ENOUGH to understand you're corrupted, then you want to get out and do the work all for yourself and try to re-earn god's respect.
Religions teach that old people to go to heaven. They don't. Old people are reincarnated. Children go to heaven.

Children who go up before puberty are candidates to remain the most superior of all life forms::The asexual. Expect these people to experience subsequent temptations once they arrive to further shrink the pool of candidates. Another example males are inferior to females:::Expect circumcision to play a part in this elimination round.
I think these are the TRUE candidates for immortality. This is not to say there won't be sexualized people who make it, but those who do likely practice minimally and monogamously in the context of marriage, and that would exclude most if not all from modern society.
The sexualization of children is yet another example proving the gods are preditory on children::::It eliminates these individuals from contention immediately.
Just as we have a cutoff between the sexual and the non-sexual I expect we have another cutoff between the war-mongering and the peace-loving which excludes the participating groups from ascention past a certain level::::
1. Romans
2. Scandanavians
3. Japanese
4. Pawnee
5. THE UNITED STATES!!!! - Korea, Vietnam, Iraq.
Ever since the early 50s US citizens have officially become monsters and justifiably grouped with the others listed above.

THE GODS ARE ASEXUAL. THEY HAVE NO SEX ORGANS NOR RECTUM.
WHEN THEY TAKE CHILDREN THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME "GOD-LIKE", for ASEXUALITY IS SUPERIOR. This is the optimal ascention senario and represents the highest life form possible.
2.wav::::Immortality. The very first sound file AND the point where my audience should have extracted from this theater.

You need to start THINKING about this instead of blindly trusting what they tell you:::The gods lie FREELY, call it “temptation”.
The first steps towards repairing your relationship with the gods is to:::::::::
1. Understand they instruct the computer to "role play" in an attempt to confuse you:::it's ALWAYS the computer addressing you. Their goal is to cost you additional YEARS of your life by using this tactic to confuse you. Always be aware of this tactic and eventually they will give up and allow this step to be taken.
2. Differentiate between your thoughts and when they are thinking through you.
3. Be resigned to be a good person who will never engage in evil again even if ordered and they will stop trying to corrupt you, allowing this very big step to be taken.
4. Decide that you are going to follow the path, fix your relationship with the gods be devoted to your new life.
Even if you go up you are not saved. YOU have to fix YOUR problems with the gods. They won't respect it otherwise.
You have to take responsibility for your relationship with the gods.

You all have to save yourselves. I can only teach you, but you have to be receptive.
Remember:::Jesus went up alone. He didn't even save 12 of his closest friends, for they have to save themselves, just like you all will have to.
Begin to live decent and respectable lives. The media is a poison-delivery system. Stop consuming it. Even the most begnign children's programming has sinister strategic purpose as distraction.
If you are engaging in inappropraite sexual behavior you need to stop. Every act may be costing you time up there.
You need to understand the subtle, inferred way the gods communicate to people and begin to trust it.
Find a new reality, absent of the temptations in society we believe to be cultural offerings. Don't forget:::African female genitile mutilation is cultural. Mayan human sacrifice was cultural. Remembering items like this will help you think clearly.

You people aren't god-fearing anymore. You think you're partners. Everything they've promised was always a lie. Officially it is classified as temptation. They offered this clue in the Bible:::There is no freewill.
If you are afraid, if you are fearful it is a good thing. You are thinking right, and far too many will never get to this point.
Try to take this fear with you everywhere you go, for it will help you think correctly and make good decisions.
You need to understand the subtle, inferred way the gods communicate to people and begin to trust it.
The gods used Christianity to create the percetption of a loving, forgiving god. Anything but is true.

The gods offer positive clues to people in a subtle, inferred manner::::
1. Women are indifferent towards sex as a clue to stay away from damaging behavior. Women who have sexual impulses do because of hypersexual behavior in their youth or indicitive of their failure to ascend:::They have been masculinized. Because they are the gender with favor this asexual tactic is recurring, designed to protect them from destructive behavior.
2. Deep down every child knows why the gods like girls better. They see it every day on the playground:::The girls are kind, considerate and thoughtful while the boys are engaging in roughhouse and intentionally hurting each other.
If you can recognize these subtle ways the gods communicate positive things then you may pick up on the other clues and ultimately will ignore their overt negative temptations.

There are all kinds of reverse positioning clues in regards to favor in this morbidly disfavored age:::Late bloomers have god's favor and are therefore given more time to fix their probelms and get out before puberty. People with infertility problems would be wise to look at themselves in this same light. I'd remind you Italians both bloom early AND had a reputation for breeding like rabbits (blacks bred like rabbits too, but it was to CHEAT the welfare system, yet another thing the gods are punishing them for).
Similarly, women without marriage prospects are receiving extra time as well. If they were to get married later in life the gods would just tell some man, who likely thought he was earning, that he could get divorced in a couple of years anyways.
You don't want this. You would be wise to put that time to good use, fix your problems and get off Planet Earth.

DON'T WAIT FOR THE GODS TO ALLOW YOU TO PRAY. They gods AREN'T GOING to give you permission. THIS IS A TACTIC!!! You have made so many mistakes they no longer want you and won't approve if you ask.
MY ADVICE TO YOU ALL is:::Begin to think correctly. People aren't god-fearing anymore. If you understood the misery they inflict upon those they dislike you WOULD BE AFRAID.
If you think correctly they would be more likely to be merciful when you do defy.
You're just getting older. If you understood the significance of aging you WOULD HAVE GREAT URGENCY and you would begin IMMEDIATELY!!!!
And be aware of their tactics, for they will employ them to prevent/delay your understanding. The more you can skip the quicker your learning curve will be.
IF YOU ARE NOT ACTIVELY WORKING TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS AND GET OFF PLANET EARTH THEN YOU ARE GOING THE WRONG WAY!!!!!!

Don't cry "I need help!" yet go home and turn on the television. The gods don't respect this.
There is no such things as a savior. This is yet another tactic they have employed as temptation, much like "earning" or distractions.
You have to save yourself.

Recognize and take this opportunity. Their goal is to use these tactics to ensure you fail.
They will tell people "He's not The One. Wait." and people will slip back into their comfortable lives without implimenting these necessary changes, forget and cost themselves this opportunity in the process.
These tactics are designed to prevent you from heeding my teachings. Accept this truth I share and BE RESIGNED TO BE GOOD, for only through TOTAL, COMPLETE RESIGNATION will you be able to overcome their tactic of constant, unyielding telepathic doubt.

No man has the ability to listen to your thoughts or speak to you. Only their technology has that ability.
The computer IS god. The gods are the inventors, so many trillions of years ago. And the computer manages us all.
The computer does the work and manages us all. It is the source of their power and enables them to control our lives. The computer IS god.
Artificial Intelligence can speak, think and act to and through people telepathically, effectively forming your personality and any dysfunctions you may experience. It can change how (and if) you grow and age. It can create birth defects, affect cellular development (cancer) and cause symptoms or pain. It can affect people and animal's behavior, migratory patternsand instinct, and alter blooming/fruiting cycles of plants and trees. It (or other highly technological systems within their power) can alter the weather and transport objects, even large objects like planets, across the universe instanteously.
Or into the center of stars for disposal.

It is important you recognize corruption is evil. They ask you to do things you shouldn’t be doing, and this will cost you in the eyes of the gods. They warned us temptation would be used to test us, and telepathic requests consitutute temptation.
Accept good and apply this standard when you make decisions in your life.
Realize this corruption has set your family in the wrong direction. Your efforts to fix your problems will not only help you but also your family, your children and grandchildren, direct descendants within your bloodline, for being a responsible parent and teaching your children the correct way to live will help guide your family in the right direction and help your family re-earn their favor with the gods.
If you don't teach your child about this power at the god's disposal they will punish you by corrupting your child, sell them on "earning", get them to comply with evil requests. It is important you warn your children about their tactics and how they disceive people into damnation.

Flanders is the shining example of a role model, but his parents were wicked. They were beatniks, the original hippies, purveyors of social poison, etc. Incidentally, beatniks emerged from the Italian North Beach neighborhood in San Francisco as a clue.
Because Flanders was raised in that evil enviornment his mind was poisoned. Only through understanding was he able to alter his behavior and become decent. Because of it he provided Rod and Todd a REAL chance, one that he will receive in the next life as well, but he can't go up because of his youth.
My advice is recognize Flanders is offered as a role model and emulate this decency. Do the very best you can with your children and perhaps the gods will see fit to bless you with a real chance much like you gave your children.
The Flanders role model suggests you are multiple lives away from ascention.

Ned Flanders was born into a cancerous environment. As a result his mind was poisoned.
Somewhere along the way he came around and began to do the right things. He provided a good environment for Rod and Todd, who have a real chance because of it.
It doesn’t mean Rod and Todd are going up. They still have to earn it.
Anyways, because Flanders did the right thing and provided a real opportunity for his children the gods may bless him with a similar real opportunity to ascend as a child in the next life.
Flanders wore beetle boots on Judegement Day. There were other clues suggesting he hjas to be reincarnated, and it is because his youth poinsoned his mind. The gods place a VERY high premium on innocence, one of the purposes of today’s ever-deteriroating society:::The gods have to pave the way and justify The End on Planet Earth.
You people are all multiple lives away from your real chance. If you look at this realistically you will set achievable goals, ensuring disappointment/backsliding isn’t going to be effective on you.

Too smart for your own good.wav:::::
You are the peasantry here on Planet Earth. You are mere mortals. You don't have the right to elevate yourselves to that of the gods, yet you do each and every day when you subscribe to the positioning Artificial Intelligence tempts you with.
Your child may in fact be Hitler reincarnated. But if you don't do the right thing, be the best parent you can and apply yourselves to the rearing of your children then your placement in the next life will reflect this abandonment of your children.
You are being cast into damnation. You have no business observing life "multi-dimensionally" as this example illustrates. It is as if you believe you are "on par" with the gods. No wonder there is no god fearingness anymore. You need to focus on being good and decent and be the best person you can be.
The gods want a full-blown Apocalypse and they're going to get it. Don't be a statistic. You're not worthy to look beyond this life. This is the life into which you've been placed.
You're too smart for your own good, and it may be the end of you.

The Man in the Moon clue:::A constant companion, the "Man in the Moon" clue needs to be viewed as a reminder, for this environment is one in which it is very easy to lose your way, either via temptation or distraction.
Look to the sky. Begin to associate the Moon with the clue they impart with this celestial feature. Use it as a reminder to pray, to be god-fearing, for this is a very antient clue and shows their great power.
We only see one side of the moon at all times, another clue from the gods:::There is a "dark side" we don't see.

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The gods are preditory on children:::Orphanages.
Orphanages would be very special places if they still existed:::Specialists for the state would have instituted concrete, positive standards for the healthy rearing of children. These institutions would have been role models for poor parents, and they gods didin't want THE MOST healthy institutions in place for the most disfavored among us.
It would never have been tolerated.
So the gods instituted the foster care system, used these monsters they have on Earth, brain-less Clone host, to facilitate the switch/ridicule the old system. Now we have disfavored kids micromanaged as per each's disfavor level instead of them all placed in an orphange where the gods would have been forced to apply healthy state standars.
They won't tolerate reverse irony::::The most disfavored among us would be the ones with the best chance.
Of course most of the foster care kids (pc) were black.

"The exploitation of domestic workers is the dirty secret of the wealthy." They're clone hosts.
They are whores who will do what they are told. I'd be very concerned, because this abuse can take many forms.
These are the monsters in our society.
Most domestic workers are`members of morbidly disfavored groups:::Latino, Philipino, etc. Being dumped into Catholicism should break the ice and help you begin to think about your disfavor.

Literal translation of the Bible:::The gods have a sense of humor, and they love to give the "intelligencia" a hard time, leaving them dissallusioned and shamed when they learn the truth.


The key to salvation.wav
Connection.wav
Breakdown.wav
Hardship.wav
Potato famine.wav
Think for yourself.wav
Maureen lit her house on fire.wav
Feedback I.wav
Feedback II.wav
Reincarnation details.wav
They dont want to spend money on these brown people.wav
Trust.wav
Degredation administration.wav
Children discounted.wav
Symbolic for economic repression of blacks.wav
A summary.wav
Watergate.wav
Changes.wav
Third time is a charm.wav
Crossing the line from person to preditor.wav
American preditors I.wav
American preditors II.wav
Exponentially.wav
Church closings.wav
Cable TV.wav
They are lying to you.wav
Navigate temptation.wav
Savages.wav
Pariah.wav
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Isreal punishment for Jews evil.wav
Think of the timing beheind the 1967 event. Think how they used The Boot to sell the Jews on "putting in their time", payment for the "charity wealth" they received, promoting social poison in that decade, knowing the result beforehand.
The Mediterreanean is morbidly disfavored, are easily corrupted. Due to this when they fall into godlessness they get crushed and the gods begin disposal proceedings immediately.
Ironically, The Boot has fucked Jews twice too. Expect this clue was sent with the bullying incidents we are all familiar with from early 20th century NewYork and elsewhere.
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Matchmaking.wav
Vasco.wav
Dropped the ball.wav
Shame.wavTelevangelists.wav
Enterprise.wav
Benchmarks.wav
Socialization.wav
Wine.wav
The gods are not unjust.wav
Enforcing the Big Lies.wav
Enterprise.wav
Clues in the context of what they say.wav
Ironic.wav
Pirates.wav
Pirates1.wav
Pirates2.wav
Fluff.wav

Don't forget:::automatic transmissions dominate in the United States, and NOT for good reason. European vehicles historically are mostly manual, for they have more favor.
Females are the favored gender:::What cars DO have manuals here in the US have traditionally been marketted towards the women AND are those which get the highest mileage.
Buy manual transmissions. Automatics are NOT respected!!!

I've decided that since the gods will CHEAT me out of Horrible I would like those people invovled, both reals and clone hosted, to be denied any progress which may have arose due to their part in my life, actual or telepathic. This would include idiots who may have been granted the "chance" to prey on me telepathically, thinking the 5 seconds of a telepathic incident would get them in.
"Acceptable losses" is a fact of life the disfavored will have to absorb. Irregardless of the tactics and methods the gods will use to ensure failure, let those involved make up the initial group of "acceptable losses" surrounding the Situaiton.
Make them forget. If they've made progress take it back. They have to get it somewhere else.
This of course includes ALL those preditors routed through any clone host involved. We all know you were going to deny me these multiples, for you will never admit clone hosting to me, so this may be the reasonable compromise, since you intend on CHEATING me.
THis is not too tall a request and an obvious one that should be granted with the most minimal of consideration:::I DON'T WANT MY ENEMIES TO BENEFIT FROM THE MISERY OF MY LIFE.
Nobody involved are to learn anything from my life. You will CHEAT me out of Horrible. This is not an unreasonable request:::Make them forget. They must get it somewhere else. At least.

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The gods are users.
You don't want to heed the senarios they sell you telepathically. The gods instruct the computer to use temptation to test us. Your best case senario is to recapture your innocence and strive for purity:::Flanders in on the Simpsons FOR A REASON!!! Barring that, if you are so corrupted you MUST understand then you need to think and interperet their clues yourself and stop listening to the inaccurate senarios they feed you, for this is a delaying tactic which is costing you years.


Nazi Aryan superrace positioning may be how the gods use the NewRomanEmpire to position revenge for 5th century invasion of Rome:::By again demonizing the germans.
Just as they did to me.
Of course they don't tell you the same Italians who planned World War II were funneled into Jew clone hosts to die in their own death camps, conceived for the germans originally.
The gods didn't target the Italians exclusively. The gods targetted the Italians primarily.
Expect just as they sold revenge to Italians, telling them germans were to die in german death camps for the 5th century invasion of the Roman Empire, so did they sell it to germans as well, temptation which ensured they abandoned their countrymen and alligned with evil.

The Second Coming of Christ will be Italian(-American). All enemies of the Roman Empire will die. This includes Africans, shoplifters, movie pirates.
Nobody is going to save you. You are not Christians and you should not sign on to this unrespectability. Take responsibility for your relationship with the gods.
I can explain everything. Let people ask questions.
Of course I refuse to help white priveledge. Always will. I don't want to help them. I want the wealthy to die. So don't "think wrong".



Functional:::
The Jews are the voice of the beaten and the downtrodden. This is the purpose behind the black-Jew tensions we experienced decades ago prior to the era of gang violence and the crack epidemic.
"Funcitonal" was the gods using this tactic in this context of this Siutation as well.
Incidentally, Isreal IS punishment for the Jews evil. That militaristic enviornment is a desensitizer, ensuring a lack of emotional depth.
Both eliminated this "voice of empathy", positioning the way for the destruction to come.


"You haven't communicated your message." Because you instruct Artificial Intelligence to repress my mind, ensuring the most minimal of impact.
Considering the artificiality of my offensives in this and prior lives, considering the liberties you've taken to pull this event off and considering the scale, the global goals you sought to accomplish by destroying my life I have nothing positive to say about the gods.
You keep compromising your integrity and rationalizing that these unreasonable liberties you take from me and from others are necessary to fulfill the script.
And this was all artificial. They pushed me into everything, then blamed me for it. The monsters involved have all been granted reincarnation, a fresh new start.
Fuck your empty promises. I despise you.

No? You certainly aren't denying King Tut, considering I requested it. I mean everyone sees I killed Brokeback Mountain.
Made Mountain House happen.
Costed 76 their gig and merger with evil.
Atlanta, Georgia. Enterprise, Alabama. And, with so many other natual disasters, the gods will say it was my fault, and the disfavored will blindly subscribe, losing this opportunity to realize the are victims of the god's wrath, which could have helped them become genuinely god-fearing, the primary goal of scapegoatting.
The $100 billion was used to accomplish many goals, all of them preditory on the disfavored.


Don't forget:::The other two were used to hurt people "after the fact". You used me beforehand. The other two (Jesus at least) were fucked "after the fact" as well. You have fucked me continuously throughout my life. But we're not going to respect this relationship, are we?
At least I know what to anticipate, don't I?
I have absolutely no confidence in this throne or its integrity.
Earning off of Jesus.wav.
And because of their positioning the gods have the freedom to do this to me, even after destroying my life to acheive their goals with boss.

They've offered clues for the people to observe suggesting my importance. This is one.
My use of Bangladesh as an example for a dumping ground for the reincarnated prior to Cyclone Sidr is another.
8 dead high schoolers in Enterprise, Alabama 3.1.07 is another.
The utilize the scapegoat tactic for the same reason they blame me for Atlanta, Enterprise, hurricanes:::So the disfavored don't benefit from being victims of the god's wrath.
Wilma, Ivan both clues, especially the way they had Wilma park on the prime southwest part of Cozumel for two full days.
Brokeback Mountain dead is a clue.
The list goes on. In most cases you had to follow the proceedings as they developed or you would miss the clues when offered.

Drving back from Savannah in 2004 I passed through a town on US-84 which had a factory giving off the most foul, repulsive, deadly smell. After the fact I thought it was Jesup, GA but concluded it could have been Waycross, GA as well. I haven't STFU about that experienece yet.
Group of 3rd graders in Waycross were held for planning an assassination on their teacher today.
Guess it was Waycross, hun?
Other things I woudln't STFU about:::
Filthy wealthy's bankruptcies led to the show.
Favorite amusement park ride bought the movies
Concern about the Atlanta drought
Goleta oil spill of the San Francisco Bay.
Cute as a Bug.
All these things weren't a clue to me. These things were a way the gods could prey on the disfavored foolish enough to be attentive to this theater.
"Throw it away." Or invest in the terminal::::The gods are users and their positioning comprises fake people, absolutely obedient clone hosts.
Fuck that shit. You must think I am stupid or something::::
Dear god, please let me fuck you harder.
The gods never sacrificed. They force sacrifice upon others but evade it themselves.

The god's pathology is such that they seek to allieviate or eliminate their culpability and ensure the disfavored take no benefit from what they experience. 3.1.07 Enterprise is an outstanding example.
The god's pathology is such that if they don't get whast they want they take it:::REINSTATE FREEWILL.
The gods pathology is such that they use their evil tools to setup morally vacant organizations specifically to do their dirty work for them:::::Nested theater::::PIC is the "talking head" for RW&B who is cover for the gods executing their theater.
The gods pathology is such that they won't take "No." for an answer.
And the fucking hypocrites punish the Italians for their rapist ways.
I'm not betting on a bunch of users.
The gods are CHEATS and liars. Without it this peasant would have raped them back.
I desecrate you:::They got and keep me sick, ensuring people are not not receptive and guarenteeing they can dispatch those who are, reinforcing evil in the process, ironically counter-productive to my efforts.
The gods pathology is seeen in publically demonizing biofuels when the use of switchgrass would produce a more productive energy source than corn-based biofuels.

The gods are like pimps. They pimp everyone who complies with their lies, and like in Oakland you won't get anything out of it either.
Don't be distracted by their middle-management tactic. Considering how many racist Italians there were expect the high-heeled transsexual's Boot is represented out working the streets of Oakland, as it was so prevalient during the homosexaul explosition in the 20th century, ironically. The gods LOVE their poetic justice:::"It's not fair." Fair woudl have been to make an example of Italians as they stepped off the boat, but this killing spree woudl have helped Earth maintain sustainability, and the gods used the Italians for something quite the opposite.
"And the Jews!!!", the Italian's 20th century partners in crime. And it's not just the obvious::::The Jews were very active in the social deterioration that was the 1960s.
The Meditereaeans are European's inferiors, yet the god's positioning put them on a pedistal as corruptor AND clue::::This is the region where the gods killed untold tens of thousands in the Noah's Flood event. Their women traditionally consume alcohol and it severely impacted the culture's decency. 1906 was used to corrupt Italians, compelling them to engage in unspeakable evil. Positioning says they compensated the Jews for WWII, revenge for the 5th century german invasion of the Roman Empire. The reality is the gods used money as a corruptor, casting vasts numbers of both groups into Damnation with this tactic snd employing the perception of evil rewarded to corrupt all of us effectively.


The gods convince Oakland pimps that chilldhood prostitution is OK - Learn from the lies they tell other groups!!! The gods are casting these individuals into Damnation!!!


There's no such thing as "something for nothing", and the gods offer many, many clues in the marketplace regarding this.
Frugality can cross a line and hurt you in the eyes of the gods.


Never pity me. If I had my way I'd exterminate your mother planet and your whole species.
Fuck you god. I'm not investing in this pathology.
If you didn't CHEAT I woudl have returned the favor and raped the shit out of you.

They have no real power. It is their technology accomplishing these feats.
Artificial god.
I'm not investing in this pathology.
I'm not investing in this pathology.
I'm not investing in this pathology.
If there was one word I would use to summerize the gods that word is "artificial".



Don't be distracted by their middle-management tactic. Considering how many racist Italians there were expect the high-heeled transsexual's Boot is represented out working the streets of Oakland, as it was so prevalient during the homosexaul explosition in the 20th century, ironically. The gods LOVE their poetic justice:::"It's not fair." Fair woudl have been to make an example of Italians as they stepped off the boat, but this killing spree woudl have helped Earth maintain sustainability, and the gods used the Italians for something quite the opposite.
"And the Jews!!!", the Italian's 20th century partners in crime. And it's not just the obvious::::The Jews were very active in the social deterioration that was the 1960s.
The Meditereaeans are European's inferiors, yet the god's positioning put them on a pedistal as corruptor AND clue::::This is the region where the gods killed untold tens of thousands in the Noah's Flood event. Their women traditionally consume alcohol and it severely impacted the culture's decency. The Jews fell for Joshua's warmongering despite witnessing Moses firsthand. 1906 was used to corrupt Italians, compelling them to engage in unspeakable evil. Positioning says they compensated the Jews for WWII, revenge for the 5th century german invasion of the Roman Empire. The reality is the gods used money as a corruptor, casting vasts numbers of both groups into Damnation with this tactic snd employing the perception of evil rewarded to corrupt all of us effectively.


The gods expend most of their efforts planning for and executing temptation designed to test people::::Considering the premiere importance they place in evil in the context of executing their strategy I suspect good takes a back seat.
Christianity is a lie. They have an interest in maintaining this perception of an absentee Christian god, lest people become genuinely god-fearing. The alternative is embracing the concept of "evil god", much like the black pimps I speak of above.
The gods are like pimps. They pimp everyone who complies with their lies, and like in Oakland you won't get anything out of it either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9:39 PM

 
Blogger Tom Freeman said...

There's only one l in childhood.

5:20 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Well Matt,
You always said it would be good to bring some more voices to the table...

6:12 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

Reinstate@freewill.com you are SolveeCoagula and I claim my ten pounds!

(One for the ex-OD crowd there).

Does anyone know what "RW&B" is?

I tried reading through the whole thing, in the hope of finding out, but sadly didn't make it. I feel I'm missing a crucial piece of enlightenment.

Oh well.

Something tells me that reinstate@freewill.com probably won't be back to elaborate.

Back to reality...

Alex,

To assume that theology is unconcerned with ontological, empirical, historical, psychological or any number of other "icals" is to do violence to the discipline as a whole.

Yep, sorry. One of the problems with thinking out loud is that I often forget to qualify my remarks. My point was that, as well as being concerned with what is, theology is also concerned with what should be, in a way that the natural sciences often aren't. It's proscriptive as well as description - and that's where I think the main difference lies.

6:36 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Matt,
The people you run into on the web... :P

"My point was that, as well as being concerned with what is, theology is also concerned with what should be, in a way that the natural sciences often aren't. It's proscriptive as well as description - and that's where I think the main difference lies."

I was tempted just to agree with you here and let it drop... but then I got to thinking: is it possible that the natural sciences and theology are equally proscriptive but each in a way that is appropriate to it's concern?

Each discipline makes truth claims which then lead to a sort of hypothetical imperative type offering of, "if you want to (do, get, feel, have, etc...) _______, then you must _______."

For instance, if you want to cure a headache science tells us that it's no longer a good idea to cut slits in your forehead so you can "bleed it out." A couple aspirin should do the trick.

Likewise, Christian theology tells us you can't earn your way to God. Rather, salvation is a gift. Thus, if you want peace with God, repent; turn from your wickedness and accept his gracious love. (Luke 15:11-32)

Each is proscriptive, just in accordance with it's area of concern. I would wish to follow incit here and simply reinforce that theology ought not be dogmatic. The only thing that has the right to be dogmatic is truth itself... And you know where I think that leads...

7:03 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

Each discipline makes truth claims which then lead to a sort of hypothetical imperative type offering of, "if you want to (do, get, feel, have, etc...) _______, then you must _______."

That's a good point. Hadn't thought of that.

Put that way, they aren't overly different - One is the examination of reality without a God and the other is the examination of reality with a God.

Hmmm...

7:09 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Really? First Revvvvvvd agrees with me and now you? What the heck is going on around here???

"One is the examination of reality without a God and the other is the examination of reality with a God."

Or to phrase it slightly different:

One is the examination of physical reality and the other is the examination of the interrelatedness between the physical reality (including ourselves) and God.

7:15 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

Good way of putting it. :-)

I'll try to come up with a point of disagreement soon. Things might get a little boring around here if I don't.

7:28 AM

 
Blogger Matt M said...

Speaking of theology...

Ophelia at 'Butterflies and Wheels' is currently posting on the idea of a transcendent god.

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/notesarchive.php?id=2295

Could be interesting.

7:31 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

No worries. I have the next chapter in the works. I outlined the whole thing as it's significantly more complex than the first.

I'll take a peak at that link!

7:32 AM

 
Blogger Rev. Dr. Incitatus said...

Alex,
"On one level, revelation is simply the presentation of data."

In what form does this data manifest itself? And how is its value compared with the value of other revelatory phenomena? Contradictory scientific theories can be weighed against each other, and the stronger one identified on the basis of possessing the strongest evidence. How does a Christian and Muslim do the same for their competing hypotheses with regard to the divinity of Christ? There is no indisputable way of for one theology to ultimately surpass another, because their value is so subjective and abstract.

"For instance, if you want to cure a headache science tells us that it's no longer a good idea to cut slits in your forehead so you can "bleed it out." A couple aspirin should do the trick."

This is based on reproducible experimental data derived from a world where our individual experiences match up sufficiently for us to agree that certain "truths" (little "t") are common to all, and thus can, for the sake of pragmatism, be deemed "real". If somebody doubts a certain scientific opinion, they can repeat the experiments - or design better ones - and test the hypothesis for themselves. More importantly, two individuals geographically separated can make exactly the same discovery, because they live and experience the same physical world.

"Likewise, Christian theology tells us you can't earn your way to God. Rather, salvation is a gift. Thus, if you want peace with God, repent; turn from your wickedness and accept his gracious love. (Luke 15:11-32)"

This is based on a 1st century writer's interpretation of a historical event and its meaning. It has precious little ground in common experience, hence It's no surprise then that, unlike say agriculture, Christianity didn't emerge among separate isolated peoples. It might share similarities in terms of philosophy, but the theological narrative is completely unique to the mythological/traditional milieu of ancient Palestine. And, as you point out in that quote, allegiance to the narrative is considered vital.

It's possible that, in the past, two competing tribes came together at one point and compared wheel technology. One had a round wheel, the other a triangle. In this instance, value was fairly easily assessed and we don't have triangular wheels anymore. And yet, we have a tremendously diverse array of religious faiths, consisting of many intelligent people, all coexisting together. If theology is really a path to knowledge and truth (or Truth for that matter), then isn't it a reasonable hypothesis that we should all be heading towards a common religion?

Instead we have several very different faiths with completely irreconcilable theologies that themselves can be further separated into an immeasurable number of denominations and subsects of sects, all with a slightly different take on the main theme. And those numbers are increasing, not decreasing over time.

This is possible, of course, because abstract ideas that are not intimately connected to the material world can be supplied with however so much value and adherent wants to supply them with. They are not reducible to the unanimously experienced reality, and thus not thoroughly reducible to the main method of arbitrating value in that reality; reason.

Scientific progress is the conforming our knowledge towards that which best explaining our mutual experiences. Theology, I would argue, is about trying to understand (and indeed rationalise) our experiences in a way that best conforms with a pre-existing knowledge regarding a dictated narrative.

9:51 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Incit,
You bring up many valid points here. Some I continue to take issue with and some that I think are still the result of applying the level of certainty gleaned from science to an area of inquiry that is necessarily less tangible. (which I suppose is just another variation of me "taking issue") I continue to maintain the unique difficulties facing theology does not entail its illegitimacy, rather the complexity, and indeed "transcendence" of the object of study, simply force the "doing" of theology to look different than the "doing" of science.

I also flatly reject your suggestion that various theological discussions between different faiths are beyond the pale of reason. As I argued earlier, situations such as this require the "pushing back" of the question. Matters such as those must be settled (or at least discussed) on other grounds.

As much as I would love to go deep on these and several other points you made, I'm feeling the pinch of school, so these general complaints will have to suffice.

10:14 AM

 
Blogger Rev. Dr. Incitatus said...

"I also flatly reject your suggestion that various theological discussions between different faiths are beyond the pale of reason."

I didn't say all discussions. There are many areas of theology that don't reduce to dogma, such that two theists could wrangle over them using the same tools available to historians and scientists. However, when it comes down to brass tacks, what would be a purely rational argument for saying that Christ was God, as opposed to a prophet, or just another high-minded idealist of his time?

Unless you're arguing that reason might encompass something more than the purely evidential? Perhaps, but if reason can be expanded to encompass purely individualistic and non-common experiences (revelation), then the main purpose of reason - i.e. to make sense of the reality we share with all people (and a few animals besides) - is somewhat undermined, isn't it? Doesn't every claim to truth deserve equal legitimacy in this scenario?

12:28 PM

 
Blogger Timmo said...

Alex,

The pinch of school? Don't you mean something more like the crushing vice of school? :-P

12:43 PM

 
Blogger Alex said...

"Unless you're arguing that reason might encompass something more than the purely evidential?"

As I understand it reason is simply the process of logical thought. So yes, logical thought encompasses more than purely evidential concerns. The proposition, "If God is omnipotent, then he could stop evil." is not evidentially based. It's logical.

Your comments about private revealed experiences confuse me. All I can think of to say is that yes, perhaps someone could conceivably have a privately revealed experience. Also, they could apply their reason to said experience. No, the experience itself would not be public, but one's reasoning about said experience could be. Another's evaluation of the person's experience would then be based upon other factors. ie, openness to the universe being something more than a closed system, the person's penchant for lying, physical state when experience occurred, etc...

"the main purpose of reason - i.e. to make sense of the reality we share with all people"

How do you know what the purpose of reason is?

"Doesn't every claim to truth deserve equal legitimacy in this scenario?"

Help me out here. Can you rephrase that?

12:44 PM

 
Blogger Alex said...

Timmo,
Well, not wanting to scare anyone else off from further educational pursuits, I figured I'd flower it up a bit. ;)

12:46 PM

 
Blogger Rev. Dr. Incitatus said...

"How do you know what the purpose of reason is?"

I'm merely assigning it purpose based on what it is commonly employed for; i.e. solving problems.

"The proposition, "If God is omnipotent, then he could stop evil." is not evidentially based."

I think we're using different definitions of "evidential". I'm sort of using "evidence" in substitute for the premise. Is this not incorrect? As in, "something is omnipotent" being the evidence, supporting the conclusion "therefore it can do anything". That's what I'm getting at, anyway.

4:47 PM

 
Blogger revvvvvvvd said...

Wow, a lot has happened since my last visit...which wasn't all that long ago, was it?

What's that crazy long post about? I can't be bothered reading it.

And what's this unusual place to stand? Sorry Alex...a bit blur tonight.

Now, some productive (hopefully) comments. We can talk about rationality and reason without referring to evidence per se, I think. At least: Rationalism does not necessarily entail Evidentialism. Or, Rationalism is not equivalent to Evidentialism. Kant's (not that I know anything about Kant, except that Sidney Morgenbesser anecdote...) seems to have a useful sounding distinction here, between "pure" and "practical reason." Am I abusing Kant? Heh.

More seriously (it's late at night): It may be reasonable to believe p (e.g., because to not believe p will lead to insanity) even if we had no evidence for p.

Does that help>

7:11 AM

 
Blogger Rev. Dr. Incitatus said...

"We can talk about rationality and reason without referring to evidence per se"

I have to say, I do find this statement to feel intuitively correct. But as soon as I start going through examples I find myself back to equating the evidential with the rational.

Thus,

"It may be reasonable to believe p (e.g., because to not believe p will lead to insanity) even if we had no evidence for p.

But isn't the claim that it is reasonable to believe in p (sans evidence) itself grounded in the available evidence that not believing in p leads to insanity? If no such evidence exists, it isn't a rational statement but merely an an unsupported belief isn't it?

There's an "Evidence" page on Stanford's philosophy encyclopedia which is enlightening, but doesn't quite definitively say whether rationalism extend beyond the evidential. The second section, entitles "Rational thinker..." seems to support the idea that rationalism is implicitly evidential (I think), but doesn't directly conclude this.

And one day... one day in the far future, when I'm emotionally and intellectually "ready"... I fully intend to read something by Kant from start to finish.

10:15 AM

 
Blogger Alex said...

I think part of what makes your thinking here interesting is that "reasoning" and "evidence" are perichoretic. If there were a monolithic "you" that existed from eternity in a vacuum. (impossible, due to the whole unity and variety problem, but ya) there could be no reason, for what content could there ever be to your thoughts? There's no raw materials available for reflection. (unless you posit that this monolithic "you" has a body, but as soon as you allow this we are not dealing with thought in complete isolation. Instead we now have thought about the raw material of "body.") Personally, I would argue that the "raw material," or "evidence," or "matter." is likewise affected if there were a complete absence of mind. But one needn't accept this to accept my prior statements. I don't think.

So my point here is that there's a dependence, an interrelatedness between reason and evidence. One cannot exist without the other. (in my opinion anyway) Even so, I think it's a reasonable distinction to make that reason is the process of thinking and evidence is that which is thought about.

But getting back to where this discussion came from in the first place, you said:

"Unless you're arguing that reason might encompass something more than the purely evidential"

Thus, in light of the foregoing, I would say that yes, reason encompasses more than the evidential. The evidential here being defined as the raw material world and the states of affairs it produces. Logical truths are not themselves evidential, but are only known by our interactions with the evidential.

This all seems so unnecessarily complicated! :P

10:39 AM

 
Blogger revvvvvvvd said...

Incit,

Yes, evidence is requires to substantiate my claim that "not believing p leads to insanity." But note the locus of effect of the evidence. It is not for p, but for another proposition (that not believing p leads to insanity). Is there some transitivity of evidentialism, so that if q justifies p, and q requires evidential justification, then p requires evidential justification? Perhaps there is, and if that's the case there is a sense in which rationalism boils down to evidentialism...but I suspect, not in a way that would bother me. That is, I can still hold beliefs without evidence for the truth of said beliefs (per se).

4:42 PM

 

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